M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[steve.mandzij]

Shame Jari-Matti has called it a day on his driving career. I could have seen him leading M-Sport into the new generation of cars.

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[denkimi]

Lappi, mikkelsen, ostberg, meeke, abbring, paddon or even loeb could be available.

[TypeR]

Henning Solberg, Tidemand, Camilli, Lukyanuk etc would also like to drive a new WRC car, but won't happen

Why start again with Paddon, Abbring, Östberg, Meeke in WRC car

[trykmann]

My main concern about Suninen, Greensmith and Fourmaux is the lack of experience. They can show good split times, but I'm not sure if they are experienced enough to develop a fast car. They seem to be able show competitive stage times, if they are given a good car.

Someone fast with lots of experience would be necessary, for example Loeb or Meeke. They wouldn't need to do a full 2022 season with the new car. Maybe only some events and testing.

[djip]

Lappi, mikkelsen, ostberg, meeke, abbring, paddon or even loeb could be available.

From this list, Lappi is the only one I rate highly as a potential "Tier 1". His time at Toyota did not end well but it seemed he had a sour relation with Tommi that took him in a downhill spiral. He did well at Citroen against Ogier with a difficult car. His year at MSport has been difficult, but given the lack of proper benchmark (nobody really knows what Sunninen is worth ...) it is difficult to tell how much is due to the car and how much is due to the driver. Somehow however, it seems to me that Lappi has burned bridges at MSport ... Most likely for him is back to Toyota complementing Ogier. If he rediscovers his 2017 form, then he'll be back on track. If he gets beaten by Evans/Rovanpera, then so be it.

Which for MSport does not leave a hell of a choice. Mikkelsen is a WRC winner and has massisve experience but i don't rate him as full Tier 1. I wish i would be proven wrong, but his latest WR2/ERC outings are questionable at best. He brings somemoney, though, and as such could be a great candidate for MSport, fast enough, experienced , reliable ad well-supported.

Out of the rest, only Paddon may have some unfullfiled potential. His demotion from Hyundai was brutal (he was not "that" bad in his last year) and he almost drove twice for Malcolm already. However he hasbeen far remote from WRC action for quite some time and it is questionable if he can hit the ground running ...

I am sorry to say that Loeb has finally hit the retirement date (speed falling out) - same for Meeke (in his case not for sheer speed, but for not showing that you can climb the last step combining speed and consistency)/ Ostberg as nice of a bloke he is, has never shown that he "had it" (this last, ultimate speed) to be in the tier 1 group and Abbring never achieved anything.

Out of the current line-up, I think Sunninen is gone. He had countless time to develop and never really delivered :more than a few glimpses of speed. He looks to me just like Ostberrg : Good, but not good enough. Greensmith, whilst improving, is nothing more than a pay-driver. He may get his maiden pmodium one day but that's about it (and would require a significant attrition level rally). Froumeaux still has upside, but has not proven much yet. True he looks good for a beginner, but he has'nt yet lit the world on fire either ...

One last curve ball : What about Gryazin ? He is real fast, albeit crash-prone. But as they say in circuit racing : Better to tame a wild, fast driver, than trying to improve a reliable, but slow driver ... It is time for him to show what he can do on the big stage and he would certainly brting money as well ...

Long story short, if I would be Malcolm/Rich, i would go for Mikkelsen or Paddon / Fourmeaux / Gryazin. Plus a 4th car for Greensmith if he pays for it. A few cars may end up in ditches, but you'd have a way to prove that your product is worth it !

[er88]

Unfortunately for Mikkelsen, he was aiming to use this year to show he was a cut above the rest of wrc2/erc (like he did in 2017). He hasn't done that yet, either in terms of raw speed or results. He needs a big 2nd half of the year if he harbours hopes to become a paid wrc driver again.
I also think the fact he spent years in one the most dominant cars in WRC history in VW, and didn't get close to challenging Ogier, and then went to Hyundai and didn't get close to challenging Neuville, suggests he maybe can't get to tier 1 level with the competition now so high. However he would still be a good option for Msport next year, and considering they were prepared to dump £millions a year on one of the top 4 drivers, surely they can run a competitive 3 car team without just selecting those who bring the most money (eg Greensmith).

Lappi would have been the best choice for Msport, he doesn't have the same experience as Mikkelsen in the WRC and we haven't seen his full potential yet. But it's Malcolm's fault if Lappi goes back to Toyota (which looks very likely now). Lappi would've essentially driven for free this year for Msport, could've been involved in all the testing of the 22car etc, but instead Msport wanted him to bring budget. I find that very naive and shortsighted of Malcolm, that he thought he could attract one of the 4 top tier drivers, yet didn't retain Lappi as the next-best available fallback option.

I also agree with the post above, Gryazin could be an interesting choice for Msport at somepoint because he seemingly has lots of backing and is on the up (two factors which could sway Wilson).

Depending on the lineup they go for, it might not be a bad option next year running Loeb/ Meeke on one or two occasional events as well, to see if they can show the cars pace and give Fourmaux a proper speed reference. Plus they'd get decent publicity.

[mknight]

For Lappi it imho depends a bit on how much bad blood there is from last year.
His speed/results (and motivation) in first 3 rounds were good. After the corona "restart" in Estonia surely the Fiesta wasn't as competetive any more, but it also looked like Lappi kinda resigned and started to get beaten by Suninen. (In a way similar to his seemingly lack of motivation at Toyota after it was clear he was leaving in second half of 2018). On top of that he started to be a bit public in his comments on how MSport/Fiesta is not up to it. At Monza it looked like they were getting pretty tired of it.

For Mikkelsen his relations with MSport have been a bit of a mystery to me the last 4-5 years. He said he talked with them at end of 2016 and also before this year but somehow nothing ever happens. Before it might have been due to EVEN who refused to pay though. I don't think VW time is something that is a disadvantage now, he was inspeed close to Ogier on most rallies om 2016 and better than Latvala. Sure it was one of the reasons he fidnu get a seat at start of 2017, but after that year I:d say it was reasonably forgotten. Hyundai time is in a way similar. At start of 2020 for sure it made him unemployed, but after that watching Loeb still not manage to drive it on tarmac and leaving and Tanak using 1,5 year to approach former gravel speed + still beeing behind om tarmac it kind of all gets a different light. What IMO might matter this year is the "retirements" in Croatia and especially in Sardinia. In WRC2 you don't really always need top speed in most stages and can still win by minutes (like Lappi in Portugal). Trying to beat everyone in first few stages and crashing certainly doesn't look good when he should be the "safe" choice.

Gryazin is surely an interesting driver. 2 years ago he was the biggest hit...then came the total disaster seasons with Hyundai and he was almost forgotten...and a few rallies later with Polo he's up again. Imo he needs to show some move to consistency, like in Liepaja, over a few rallies. Main problem with him is that MSport already has a young "fast" driver - Fourmaux. A lineup of Fourmaux+Gryazin and Greensmith is just too much of a combined risk smelling disasters like this years Monte. Don't think Ford wants much of that with new car next season. Gryazin+Fourmaux+Lappi or Mikkelsen might be interesting, but not sure how realistic that is.


Guys bringing up Meeke for anything but a rally or two really need to have a look on his 2018 season. Being in the clearly fastest car he managed to loose them the manu championship, get a single podium and finish behind Mikkelsen and Evans in points with 3 more starts than both of them. Adding to that he has not driven a rally for 1,5 years and is by far the oldest of the drivers mentioned here.

[AnttiL]

When you talk about Paddon, remember that he's a devoted Hyundai guy. He won't drive for other brands. Finland and Australia 2019 were just attempts to show off Adamo that he is still fast, and even they were sponsored by Hyundai NZ!

I have said this before, but I repeat it. M-Sport wanted one of the "big four" because they want to be able to win a championship, and that's a goal they're willing to invest in. But with a driver like Mikkelsen, Lappi, or anyone else still available, they are not secured to get it against Hyundai and Toyota crews.

Right now there's no point paying anyone anything, because let's be honest, they won't win the title. Just take anyone who is willing to bring budget in. And maybe they have accepted the situation and started saying their current drivers are actually good enough.

Would be fun to see Gryazin in top class.

Also remember that next year cars are not the same as this year cars. They will be very different to drive, maybe closer to current R5 cars with more power.

[mknight]

Who can fight for the title depends a lot on the car.
How many people actually seriously believed Evans would be able to fight for title at the end of 2019? Basically nobody except maybe some british jurnos. He was a "second best" driver, behind "big 3" and had a disastrous 2018 when he was nowhere while Ogier won the title right behind him.

He almost did it and now he suddenly is "big four".

That totally doesn't mean anyone who drove Toyota in 2020 could fight for title. (Rovanpera didn't, Katsuta didn't).

So it does matter who you put in the car, a lot. Sure the chance might be lower than with "big 4", but it's still bigger than with "pay"/young drivers only.

[MartijnS]