M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[janvanvurpa]

To illustrate how ridiculous this suggestion is (which is like comparing apples with pairs, by the way, as the F1 engines are turbocharged, while NASCAR ones are naturally aspirated), I will do the calcs for each of the two types of engine using figures significantly skewed in favour of the NASCAR engine, so here it is:

NASCAR engine:
- Top power: 660 kW @ 8 000 min-1 (remember figures are intentionally distorted to work in NASCAR’s favour)
- Engine capacity: 5.85 litres

F1 engine:
- Top power: 500 kW @ 12 500 min-1 (remember figures are intentionally distorted to work in NASCAR’s favour)
- Engine capacity: 1.6 litres

NASCAR calcs:
BMEP = (660x120) / (5.85*8000) = 1.69231 MPa

F1 calcs:
BMEP = (500x120) / (1.6*12500) = 3.0 MPa

On my side of the pond, 3 is bigger than 1.69 and I suspect it is the same in the US of A, but as I mentioned comparing these two types of engines is stupid in itself as one is naturally aspirated while the other is heavily turbocharged.

Also, for comparison purposes and using the official figures, which anybody is free to agree or disagree with, here are the calcs for a current WRC engine:

BMEP = (280x120) / (1.6*6000) = 3.5 MPa

Now, before anybody starts shouting how the current WRC engines are more efficient than the F1 engines, if we use numbers that are closer to reality for the strongest F1 engine (currently believed to be the Mercedes), then the BMEP is probably not less than 4.2 MPa.

Go argue with Racecar Engineering and tell them they're all wrong. And that you know because this is your profession..They do seem equally enamored by both F1 and NASCAR, which defies all imagination to me. What team to you work for?

[NickRally]

Go argue with Racecar Engineering and tell them they're all wrong. And that you know because this is your profession..They do seem equally enamored by both F1 and NASCAR, which defies all imagination to me. What team to you work for?

Apologies, I won’t highjack this thread any more after this post. To answer, I suspect they have compared the old naturally aspirated engines used up until 2013 included, which had perhaps a BMEP of just under 1.6 MPa, while the NASCAR engines topped out at maybe slightly over 1.6 MPa, I guess.

Once again for comparison’s sake, the highest BMEP naturally aspirated engines that I have come in contact with, were the old F3000 engines used up until 1995 (before the series became one make championship) with the BMEP entering the 1.7 MPa territory.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier speaking today:
"We’ve made good progress since last year and in this sport you don’t achieve anything alone – it’s always a team effort. All the energy we’ve put into developing the car over the past year is really starting to pay off. We saw it already in Mexico with a good step forward on gravel, and so far I think we’ve improved on asphalt too which is very positive for the future."

[Zeakiwi]

I guess WRC cars still use the road car engine blocks - compared to a F1 engine system which probably costs as much as if not more than a whole WRC car.
Complexity of current F1 engine system guessed at by this writer who gives the reader options as to whether the Honda F1 engine system used in 2017 either did or did not have spark plugs?
A bit more transparency in F1 might be beneficial for the honda fans(if there are any left)?
F1 is a high miler fuel economy run compared to Nascar?
https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/07...engine-so-bad/

[Fitz]

As Ari Vatanen said about the t16 'the car was starting to fly' & this is where I think Seb is starting to reach with this Fiesta..... which is lump in your throat stuff for West Cumbria.

[Mirek]

I guess WRC cars still use the road car engine blocks - compared to a F1 engine system which probably costs as much as if not more than a whole WRC car.

No, they don't. If I am not mistaken the only WRC car with stock block since the introduction of 1.6T cars in 2011 was Mini and it was proven to be a wrong decision. Others use specific engines built from scratch.

[AMSS]

No, they don't. If I am not mistaken the only WRC car with stock block since the introduction of 1.6T cars in 2011 was Mini and it was proven to be a wrong decision. Others use specific engines built from scratch.

I think the Fiesta also started with stock block, only later they made a race specific block

[steve.mandzij]

I think the Fiesta also started with stock block, only later they made a race specific block

How much difference does a stock block make compared to a specific one? I'm not very informed on engineering stuff.

[dimviii]

How much difference does a stock block make compared to a specific one? I'm not very informed on engineering stuff.

depents how strong/fragile is the stock block you have for reference.
specific blocks can be better at heat absorb too(bigger water jackets/channels etc)

[AMSS]

depents how strong/fragile is the stock block you have for reference.
specific blocks can be better at heat absorb too(bigger water jackets/channels etc)

Besides these also weight reduction and slight center of gravity advantages can be obtained by custom blocks