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  1. #2361
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    Eddie, you know that rallying is all about at the top level? It's about companies selling cars. They are going to milk every avenue and opportunity to sell their end products and market the hell out of the investment that they have made in their respective WRC programmes.
    Ford Eco-Boost is, as others have said above, the terminology they give to the small petrol engines and how they are inducted.
    On one hand you're professing to know a lot about M-Sport and the WRC in general, yet on the other, you are surprised that M-Sport are using Eco-Boost terminology for a non-standard competition engine, that shares little with a road-going variant.
    Eco-Boost is a brand and M-Sport and Ford are using their competition programmes to promote it. Yes, it's not the same engine as Mrs Fast has in her Fiesta, but you get why they do what they do, right?
    You dont have to be so condescending. I know of course its advertising, but I expect a bit of honesty. Using the term 'Powered by Ford Ecoboost' does at least imply there is some connection with that engine and the rally car. Even on their website they say 'based on the 1.6 Ecoboost Fiesta ST'. The whole implication is that engine is at least the basis.

    They should stick to the actual engine spec:
    "M-Sport developed 1.6 Turbo, direct injection powerplant, FIA regulated 32mm restrictor." with no mention of the ST or Ecoboost.

    Apart from what br21 said about a Ford Mondeo 1.8, can anyone else give some evidence of what engine the Fiesta R5 actually starts out as ?
    Last edited by Fast Eddie WRC; 21st October 2018 at 22:37.
    #M-SPORTER

  2. #2362
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    A couple of websites state the WRC car engine as follows:

    'The engine has been revised to produce 380 bhp and 450 Nm of torque from its bespoke Ecoboost-powered 1600cc direct injection engine and 36 mm inlet restrictor.'

    'Engine: Ford EcoBoost 1600cc direct injection engine developed by Ford, M-Sport and Pipo Moteurs. Four cylinders, 16 valves. Bore 83.0mm. Stroke 73.9mm. Cosworth electronic engine management system. Garrett turbocharger (with FIA required 33 mm inlet restrictor). Air intercooler. Catalytic converter.'

  3. #2363
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    Yeah, whatever. They use what they can/ need and market it like they need. Fiesta RS WRC aka mk7 was all the time "powered by ecoboost", right?....and for 2015 they built a rally-spec block not found in any road car.
    " For the first time, the entire engine block was designed in-house by M-Sport’s team of designers and engineers. With technical support from Ford, it has been machined from a solid block of aluminium and exemplifies M-Sport’s engineering expertise which continues to grow from strength to strength."

  4. Likes: Mirek (22nd October 2018),pantealex (22nd October 2018)
  5. #2364
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    A couple of websites state the WRC car engine as follows:

    'The engine has been revised to produce 380 bhp and 450 Nm of torque from its bespoke Ecoboost-powered 1600cc direct injection engine and 36 mm inlet restrictor.'

    'Engine: Ford EcoBoost 1600cc direct injection engine developed by Ford, M-Sport and Pipo Moteurs. Four cylinders, 16 valves. Bore 83.0mm. Stroke 73.9mm. Cosworth electronic engine management system. Garrett turbocharger (with FIA required 33 mm inlet restrictor). Air intercooler. Catalytic converter.'
    Sorry that I didn't read all the discussion (I'm ill and don't have the mood for that) but if You were trying to prove that Fiesta WRC engine is stock-based You just proved otherwise because no stock Ford EcoBoost engine has 83 mm bore. Anyway it's well established fact that the only WRC engine using a stock block since 2011 was the one of Mini.

    The point is plain and simple. Stock engines have different use than racing ones and some of their features are not suitable for racing. For example You need small compact engine with low fuel consumption and emissions in stock production but for racing You need big valves, strong block and cooling which is large enough. You can see a clear pattern that nearly all WRC engines have same or very similar bore/stroke ratio because that was found to be ideal for their use. However no stock engine features such dimensions. That's why they design their own engine for WRC cars (where they can do that) or they are at least modifying existing larger engines but reducing stroke (usual way with R5 cars).

    The only stock engine used in WRC cars was PSA/BMW EP6CDT in Mini and it was very problematic due to its small bore and insufficient cooling. Citroën didn't do the same mistake with DS3 and C3 WRC and designed a new engine. However for R5 cars they couldn't do the same because it's not allowed hence the issues with their R5 cars having not enough torque and ever repeating engine issues. The others used larger stock engines for R5 cars and reduced their stroke (M-Sport, Škoda, Hyundai) but PSA couldn't do that because they didn't have any larger stock turbo engine than 1.6.

    And one advice at the end. Believe what Br21 says because he knows what he's talking about!
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  6. Likes: AnttiL (22nd October 2018),cali (22nd October 2018),EstWRC (22nd October 2018),pantealex (22nd October 2018),the sniper (22nd October 2018)
  7. #2365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    You dont have to be so condescending. I know of course its advertising, but I expect a bit of honesty. Using the term 'Powered by Ford Ecoboost' does at least imply there is some connection with that engine and the rally car. Even on their website they say 'based on the 1.6 Ecoboost Fiesta ST'. The whole implication is that engine is at least the basis.

    They should stick to the actual engine spec:
    "M-Sport developed 1.6 Turbo, direct injection powerplant, FIA regulated 32mm restrictor." with no mention of the ST or Ecoboost.

    Apart from what br21 said about a Ford Mondeo 1.8, can anyone else give some evidence of what engine the Fiesta R5 actually starts out as ?
    OK, look at it this way: The WRC fiesta and the R5 fiesta ARE both powered by Eco-Boost engines because M-Sport chooses to claim they are. Eco-Boost isn't a specific component, it's a name they give to something and in this case, M-Sport (with Ford's permission) choose to brand their small petrol-petrol rally engines as such.

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  9. #2366
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    Always had a secret admiration towards people that had the mental strength to argue with the british on subjects that require a bit more than basic level of intelligence...

    The last few posts are the perfect example why manufacturers bother with top level motorsport...

    simply because the basic uneducated human thinks that a WRC car is just his 30k vehicle he keeps in his garage in disguise and with some fancy paintwork and plastics...

  10. #2367
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    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.T View Post
    Always had a secret admiration towards people that had the mental strength to argue with the british on subjects that require a bit more than basic level of intelligence...

    The last few posts are the perfect example why manufacturers bother with top level motorsport...

    simply because the basic uneducated human thinks that a WRC car is just his 30k vehicle he keeps in his garage in disguise and with some fancy paintwork and plastics...
    Thanks. What do I win?

  11. #2368
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    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    Thanks. What do I win?
    my secret admiration... its very secret though.

  12. #2369
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    The problem here is that none of you have understood where this argument started ie. why the new Mk8 Fiesta R5 is not out yet and if its anything to do with the new Fiesta ST only just being produced.

    I asked if the fact the car was 'based on the ST' which every part of Ford and M-Sport claim, had anything to do with it. That was all.

    And to NOT and T16 - get a life. You are both so sad and bitter that I proved you wrong in the past and are desperate to try to make a point. Pathetic.
    #M-SPORTER

  13. #2370
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    Thanks. What do I win?
    A place in NOTs twisted world. Well done.
    #M-SPORTER

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