M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[AndyRAC]

The rich amateur/ gentleman driver has always been a part of motorsport; they quite often fund teams/ help other drivers. We see it in rallying, as well more obviously in Sportscars.....
As others have said, the 'issue' currently is so few top line cars, that we see a rich amateur amongst the top seeds - whereas in other eras he would have been far lower....

Don't blame him but others for this situation.....(FiA/Promoters)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

On something like the BRC or other National events Serderidis should just run as a demo or course car. He definitely shouldn't be seeded and hold up the other real competitors.

[djip]

The rich amateur/ gentleman driver has always been a part of motorsport; they quite often fund teams/ help other drivers. We see it in rallying, as well more obviously in Sportscars.....
As others have said, the 'issue' currently is so few top line cars, that we see a rich amateur amongst the top seeds - whereas in other eras he would have been far lower....

Don't blame him but others for this situation.....(FiA/Promoters)

Spot on. The first example that comes to my mind is Frederic Dor. For a decade he ran fully white (e.g. totally sponsor-free) latest specs GroupA Impreza in almost full campaigns - Never to register a top 10 result. At the same time, there were 20+, sometimes 30+ official/top driven cars, so everybody remembers the nice chap in the white Subaru and nobody complained that he would steal a drive form someone else...

There has been many debates on what the top category should be, now a look at ERC's rally Fafe last weekend is like a blast to the past : 40 WRC2 cars, all pretty much equal machinery, and the best drivers in the front. honestly, speaking, as much as I lovee th Rally1 cars, I wonder why on earth the FIA has not elected to go Rally2 - not Rally2+, just basic Rally2 with the same cost cap as today. would'nt that be awesome to see a young Finn coming from nowhere unexpectedly mix it up with the big guys ? Today's events, aside from being weak in top class entries, are far too predictable. Even if you drive poorly, if you have 1-2 offs, you are ensured to finish in the top 10 if you drive a rally1 car, if not in the top 6.

[PLuto]

Spot on. The first example that comes to my mind is Frederic Dor. For a decade he ran fully white (e.g. totally sponsor-free) latest specs GroupA Impreza in almost full campaigns - Never to register a top 10 result. At the same time, there were 20+, sometimes 30+ official/top driven cars, so everybody remembers the nice chap in the white Subaru and nobody complained that he would steal a drive form someone else...

There has been many debates on what the top category should be, now a look at ERC's rally Fafe last weekend is like a blast to the past : 40 WRC2 cars, all pretty much equal machinery, and the best drivers in the front. honestly, speaking, as much as I lovee th Rally1 cars, I wonder why on earth the FIA has not elected to go Rally2 - not Rally2+, just basic Rally2 with the same cost cap as today. would'nt that be awesome to see a young Finn coming from nowhere unexpectedly mix it up with the big guys ? Today's events, aside from being weak in top class entries, are far too predictable. Even if you drive poorly, if you have 1-2 offs, you are ensured to finish in the top 10 if you drive a rally1 car, if not in the top 6.

It is about money and marketing. They need money from manufacturers, manufacturers needs to invest money. And with all of this, they need exclusivity. They are happy to have 3-4 manufacturers and 10-15 Rally1 cars - each manufacturer has enough media coverage, all their cars are visible in live coverage from every stage, each manufacturer can finish on podium. So all sides (manufacturers, FIA, promoter) are happy with this situation...

[Jarek Z]

each manufacturer has enough media coverage, all their cars are visible in live coverage from every stage, each manufacturer can finish on podium. So all sides (manufacturers, FIA, promoter) are happy with this situation...

That's probably true, but can't they (manufacturers, FIA, promoter) see, that media and viewers lose interest in this sport?

[Jarek Z]

The first example that comes to my mind is Frederic Dor. For a decade he ran fully white (e.g. totally sponsor-free) latest specs GroupA Impreza in almost full campaigns - Never to register a top 10 result. At the same time, there were 20+, sometimes 30+ official/top driven cars, so everybody remembers the nice chap in the white Subaru and nobody complained that he would steal a drive form someone else...

That's a good example with Frederic Dor, but he actually wasn't so completely bad. In 1999 he even managed to win French championship on gravel:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/season/...france-gravel/

https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/466021/?entry=36635

[Steve Boyd]

On something like the BRC or other National events Serderidis should just run as a demo or course car. He definitely shouldn't be seeded and hold up the other real competitors.

Cronin was only held up on the second stage. He was 3.1 seconds quicker than Formeaux on the third stage but slower than Formeaux on the other three stages losing 28.9 seconds, so even without the second stage delay Cronin lost 25.8 seconds to Formeaux.

It is also worth noting that Cronin only ran behind Serderidis on the first two stages. The Macolm Wilson used UK road timing where the road target time is added to the stage finish time to calculate the arrival time at the next control. This means that once you've passed somebody you start the rest of the rally ahead of them. This is different from the FIA road timing convention where the road target is added to the stage start time to calculate the arrival time at the next control. The FIA system means that the start order never changes until the field is re-seeded and if you catch somebody on a stage you start behind them on the next one, and maybe catch them again.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Cronin was only held up on the second stage. He was 3.1 seconds quicker than Formeaux on the third stage but slower than Formeaux on the other three stages losing 28.9 seconds, so even without the second stage delay Cronin lost 25.8 seconds to Formeaux.

It is also worth noting that Cronin only ran behind Serderidis on the first two stages. The Macolm Wilson used UK road timing where the road target time is added to the stage finish time to calculate the arrival time at the next control. This means that once you've passed somebody you start the rest of the rally ahead of them. This is different from the FIA road timing convention where the road target is added to the stage start time to calculate the arrival time at the next control. The FIA system means that the start order never changes until the field is re-seeded and if you catch somebody on a stage you start behind them on the next one, and maybe catch them again.

Thanks for the info but when a rally is so short starting Serderidis 2nd could easily have cost someone an important place (and worse if they had played their Joker).

[Steve Boyd]

Thanks for the info but when a rally is so short starting Serderidis 2nd could easily have cost someone an important place (and worse if they had played their Joker).

The facts are that it didn't. If it had been a long event with long stages and FIA timing then it could well have been an issue, but it wasn't so there was no affect on the final placings. Give the event organisers credit for knowing how the timing works and what the consequences of seeding are.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Back on topic (MSport)...

Malcolm drives the Puma:
https://youtu.be/K5yLz_RghAM