M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[Kenneth]

Can you explain your last point re 2011 cars ? There were more WRC1 entries including private runners with those cars...

It isn't really some strong point, more like just an opinion as imo these cars weren't interesting enough. But as history showed it wasn't some long term successful rule set as these cars were there only for 5 years after which manufacturers wanted stronger, more interesting and more expensive cars. I think WRC should think about rules that would be there for a longer period.

But your point is good, from that perspective 2011 WRCs were a success and I think that Rally2+ would deliver even better in term of entries. I just see it as a short term solution. But if it's supposed to be some transitional era, then sure, would be probably a good step.

But we have no guarantee that Škoda would make Rally2+. I'm also a bit worried about its impact on current Rally2 cars.

[rallyfiend]

It isn't really some strong point, more like just an opinion as imo these cars weren't interesting enough. But as history showed it wasn't some long term successful rule set as these cars were there only for 5 years after which manufacturers wanted stronger, more interesting and more expensive cars. I think WRC should think about rules that would be there for a longer period.

But your point is good, from that perspective 2011 WRCs were a success and I think that Rally2+ would deliver even better in term of entries. I just see it as a short term solution. But if it's supposed to be some transitional era, then sure, would be probably a good step.

But we have no guarantee that Škoda would make Rally2+. I'm also a bit worried about its impact on current Rally2 cars.

I'm more thinking that the FIA completely abandoning these rules after such a short amount of time - and their commitment to stability of rules - will actually make Ford and Hyundai leave.

Ford don't have a viable Rally2 platform now anyway with the Fiesta no longer a car, and surely the i20 has a limited life, so why would they re-commit when the FIA can't maintain their own commitment...

[Kenneth]

I'm more thinking that the FIA completely abandoning these rules after such a short amount of time - and their commitment to stability of rules - will actually make Ford and Hyundai leave.

Ford don't have a viable Rally2 platform now anyway with the Fiesta no longer a car, and surely the i20 has a limited life, so why would they re-commit when the FIA can't maintain their own commitment...

Ironically, Ford not having a Rally2 viable car can be a good thing as it could push FIA to use space frame in that Rally2+ rules.

[the sniper]

Ironically, Ford not having a Rally2 viable car can be a good thing as it could push FIA to use space frame in that Rally2+ rules.

That'd be a good thing? The space frames have only made the sport more irrelevant, in my perception.

[Kenneth]

That'd be a good thing? The space frames have only made the sport more irrelevant, in my perception.

How is it less relevant than taking a road car and taking away anything but chassis? It would definitely be a good thing because it would make the cars cheaper and allow manufacturers that don't ideal road car to join. I definitely prefer more cars to road car relevancy.

After all, Dakar cars use space frames too and it doesn't make it less relevant.

[RS]

How is it less relevant than taking a road car and taking away anything but chassis? It would definitely be a good thing because it would make the cars cheaper and allow manufacturers that don't ideal road car to join. I definitely prefer more cars to road car relevancy.
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That was the argument for spaceframes with Rally1 and neither happened.

[Walach]

I guess that spaceframe is not the reason though

[Kenneth]

That was the argument for spaceframes with Rally1 and neither happened.

Space frame alone won't make cars cheaper nor attract manufacturers. You have to make the rest of the rules attractive too.

It's hard to attract manufacturers when the engine and hybrid unit alone costs like 10 road cars. Oh and it doesn't matter if they produce both things themselves for their road cars for a fraction of the price, they cannot use it.

[RS]

I guess that spaceframe is not the reason though

Probably not, no.

But I also don't think that lack of spaceframe-centred rules would be the barrier in terms of base car or costs that were the argument for introducing them. After all there are more Rally2 cars than Rally1 cars and even small tuners like MEM were able to make a Proton 'R5'

I concede that will be more of a problem in the future though if road cars go electric and rallying remains with ICE.

[Kenneth]

Current Rally1 rules still allow using road car chassis yet all 3 manufacturers choose space frame.