What would u like to see in a rally game?

[Rallylegend]

What are the crucial things that you would like to see / feel in a new rally game?

For example WRC game or a National Rally game?

What are in your opinion the good things from a game for example:
- RBR ( Richard Burns Rally)
- CMR ( Colin McRae Rally 1,2,3,04, 2005,dirt, dirt2 ,dirt 3)
- WRC games

or perhaps u noticed good things in other racing games , for example F1 2011

What is importent for you in the game play? Is it the physics or does it has to be the look?

What kind of racing classes would you like to play, is it just the WRC rallycars or is it also the rallycross cars or Group N rally cars?

The information from you guys will be used as feedback for a new rally game ( Information will follow later)

[lcd]

No offence mate, but why don't you give us that Information first?
Last time a similar thread was made around here, turned out to a complete fail/joke.

[Rallylegend]

Codemasters ;-) Need more information? ^^ i cant tell all Luke

And beside that Luke u know i am already longer than 1 year investigating this stuff also on the Codemasters forums and other rally forums ;-P i aint faking / joking

[habsalot]

Hope you are on to something good in the near future ! Here is my humble contribution.

From a previous thread + update


Thank you for opening this up to the users . I have played most of the rally games mentioned from CM series from CMR 2 to Dirt 3, Mobil 1 , RBR , Rally Trophy and Rallisport Challenge . While all are mostly fine games but each one seems to be lacking in 1 or 2 areas. Allow me to list what I would be looking for in the ultimate Rally game. First of all, good to hear the graphics would not be the ultimate goal and I agree with all the comments made so far.

Stage lenght : Mobil 1 stages were the best in terms of the lenght.

Handling: RBR & Rally Trophy : They are the benchmarks so far as handling goes. A steep learning curve but once
mastered seems the best so far in terms of the handling of a real Rally car. Update : handling in Dirt 3 acceptable .

Atmosphere : CMR 4, Dirt 1 & WRC 2010 give the sense with the career path that you are a Rally driver particating in the top
level of the sport after buiding up from the lower levels . I have yet to play WRC 2010 but it does provide the gamer with the feeling of being in the different series from JWRC, PWRC and WRC . IMO this is the major disapointment with Dirt 3 in terms of re - playability , no Rally Championship.

Stage diversity : Mobil 1 and Dirt 1 , stages representative of what real stages are like. Especially Mobil1 with narrow stages
that seem to reflect the real life British Championship . As much weather effects as possible, fog and snow especially.

Cars : most of the cars in all the games mentioned are fairly accurately reprensented. This is the one area I have a criticism
of RBR . Not enough cars and only 1 FWD in the original games althought the modders have been fantastic. Love the FWD cars in CMR04 and Dirt 3

On a personal note . Please make any ( all ) Rally titles available in North America for the XBox 360 .

[Rallylegend]

Stage lenght : Mobil 1 stages were the best in terms of the lenght................... .

The stage lenght is something that already is in discussion, because u have 2 problems ,
[1] not everyone would like to drive for example a 45 km Panzerplatte stage. but i do agree a stage around 5-8 min would be better
[2] U got a maximum data limit on a dvd or blue ray

thank you for your reply habsalot =)

[Bruce D]

Rallylegend, I don't know if you have yet, but you should read this thread - http://www.motorsportforums.com/simu...ally-game.html - it had quite a few ideas in it (mine as well) and will also explain why LCD reacted the way he did, which personally was also my original reaction to your thread, and honestly I think the jury will still be out on your game until we see it, cos last time we gave our opinions and all it was was some moron advertising his Need For Speed game or whatever. Sorry if we seem a bit hostile, we've just been burnt before and we desperately want a great rally game and if you can produce it then we'll back you 100%.

[Bruce D]

Somethings have just come to my head now which I think I should add, given your concerns about disc size. Remember most WRC events (and even National events) these days tend to repeat stages to get the mileage without finding tons of roads, so you could do that, only design the roads so that they can show wear after cars have been through them, like RBR does and you can repeat stages. That way you can make longer rallies, which is something I'd like to see, 6 stages really isn't enough time to get into a rally.

Another thing, especially for people like me who don't have internet at home, is to make big fields of AI for rallies, so like 50 or more entries, in various classes. Like Rally Championship and games like RAC Rally before it, it would be fun to make your way back up the leaderboard after losing time, etc. It just means a bigger database of AI people and more to calculate.

A third thing is classic WRC seasons, like 1998, etc where you can play against the likes of McRae, Sainz, Burns, Makinen, Kankkunen, etc.

Lastly, in the career mode (good in WRC 2010, but not brilliant), have you come up through national championships to get to the top. Now lets say you have 9 stages per country in the WRC calendar, keeping in mind that although this is 117 stages you could have short superspecial stages. Anyway, point is 9 stages repeated is 18 stages, which is a great length for a WRC event. Now you can have a national championship based in each country in the WRC, so a British championship, Swedish championship, French, Spainish, Argentine, etc. That's 13 national championships you can have, each can have 3 stages from the WRC event, repeated meaning each national event is 6 stages long. Now you could repeat that again, for the other stages and have a 3 round national championship containing only the 9 stages you made for the WRC round.

Next step after that is to make a European championship, consisting of the European rounds of the WRC calendar, using 6 of the stages per rally repeated, meaning 12 stages per event and 9 rounds making a European championship. Next step is the WRC itself. But remember at all these levels you can have individual classes too, so you could start out doing the nationals in a R2 car or something and progress to N4/S2000, then either get an Academy invite or do the European championship in a S2000 or R3 or something, moving to the JWRC, SWRC and eventually doing the WRC itself.

[Rallylegend]

Already readed Bruce, habsalot posted it here too and add a little bit,
the reason i posted this again is that many of you who played rally games noticed the good things in a few rally games , for example RBR had good physics. and CMR had a good line up from there cars.

Wha i try to get clear is all the good things from all the rally games and put that together...

Personally i think that a rally game has to start where its all about, challenging long stages with many different physics, for example tarmac gravel and the weather around it, and after 22 stages there is a winner of the rally , then all the rules comes around after 2 stages service , a limit of time service , super rally system etc etc etc

But what do you guys think about it? And what do you guys think about an option to write your own pace notes, have a recce and stuff like that?

And no I aint a nasty advertiser or something , Pino, luke and some others are following me for a few years I just want the best for the rally sport (Specially because i am also a rally driver)

[Rallylegend]

Somethings have just come to my head now which I think I should add, given your concerns about disc size. Remember most WRC events (and even National events) these days tend to repeat stages to get the mileage without finding tons of roads, so you could do that, only design the roads so that they can show wear after cars have been through them, like RBR does and you can repeat stages. That way you can make longer rallies, which is something I'd like to see, 6 stages really isn't enough time to get into a rally.

Another thing, especially for people like me who don't have internet at home, is to make big fields of AI for rallies, so like 50 or more entries, in various classes. Like Rally Championship and games like RAC Rally before it, it would be fun to make your way back up the leaderboard after losing time, etc. It just means a bigger database of AI people and more to calculate.

A third thing is classic WRC seasons, like 1998, etc where you can play against the likes of McRae, Sainz, Burns, Makinen, Kankkunen, etc.

Lastly, in the career mode (good in WRC 2010, but not brilliant), have you come up through national championships to get to the top. Now lets say you have 9 stages per country in the WRC calendar, keeping in mind that although this is 117 stages you could have short superspecial stages. Anyway, point is 9 stages repeated is 18 stages, which is a great length for a WRC event. Now you can have a national championship based in each country in the WRC, so a British championship, Swedish championship, French, Spainish, Argentine, etc. That's 13 national championships you can have, each can have 3 stages from the WRC event, repeated meaning each national event is 6 stages long. Now you could repeat that again, for the other stages and have a 3 round national championship containing only the 9 stages you made for the WRC round.

Next step after that is to make a European championship, consisting of the European rounds of the WRC calendar, using 6 of the stages per rally repeated, meaning 12 stages per event and 9 rounds making a European championship. Next step is the WRC itself. But remember at all these levels you can have individual classes too, so you could start out doing the nationals in a R2 car or something and progress to N4/S2000, then either get an Academy invite or do the European championship in a S2000 or R3 or something, moving to the JWRC, SWRC and eventually doing the WRC itself.

I like your idea Bruce but this is what I calculate from the Calendar of the WRC 2005 ( because of the Mitsubishi lancer WRC 2005 ) and this is my result:

Monte Carlo Rally 15 stages 353 km Tarmac
Swedish Rally 20 stages 359 km Snow/ Ice / Tarmac
Rally Mexico 14 stages 355 km gravel
Rally New Zealand 20 stages 355 km gravel
Rally d'Italia Sardegna 17 stages 350 km gravel
Cyprus Rally 18 stages 326 km gravel
Rally of Turkey 18 stages 348 km gravel
Acropolis Rally 19 stages 349 km gravel
Rally Argentina 22 stages 359 km gravel
Rally Finland 21 stages 355 km gravel
Rallye Deutschland 19 stages 355 km tarmac
Wales Rally GB 17 stages 354 km gravel
Rally Japan 26 stages 350 km gravel
Tour de Corse 12 stages 341 km Tarmac
Rally Catalunya 15 stages 358 km Tarmac
Rally Australia 26 stages 355 km gravel


Total: 299 Stages 5622 km

Now mostly of the stages u will drive twice so it’s an average of 2811 km stage in a game, isnt it to much to develop ?( I have no clue i aint a developer) and beside that then u need to develop still the national stages what is left... And specially the todays grafics takes lots of data on the disc.... and i have no clue how far u will get with 2 discs...

[habsalot]

I would not be so interested in writing my own pace notes but the option of speed of the calls was nice in RBR . It might be easier on developers to use things that already exist than invent new things eventhough this is a wish list.

I understand the lenght of stages depends on the data limit . A greater number of stages per rally in the 5-8 minute range is fine. Ideally with a couple of 10 minute ones thrown in.