Thread: F1 winners first time out
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9th June 2011, 00:53 #11
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Originally Posted by D28
Originally Posted by D28
Originally Posted by D28Popular memory is not history.... -- Gordon Wood
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9th June 2011, 02:09 #12
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Right, if I worked around the clock, there is no way I could arrive at a question satisfactory to you. I delayed posting for days simply because I didn't wish to hear from you what was wrong. If I had left the Indy cars unmentioned, you would have pointed to the Bowes Seal Fast..... etc. This is the basic problem.
I see the forum as a place where racing enthusiasts can duscuss some past events, in a non-confrontational mode; I go back 51 years for what its worth. You may have a different formal, academic forum in mind, where to discuss serial numbers, models and so on. If so I can add nothing.
As I mentioned I cannot understand your use of derogatory terminology, skewed information, revisionist history, clog the system .. and so on. The original question would be clear to 98% of readers of this forum. It is also clear to you, but not correctly expressed. Why exactly do you feel the need to downgrade other enthusiasts? Surely you recognize some other magazine writers, authors, commentators that have some valid opinions on motorsport? My experience with vintage racers and enthusiasts is that they are invariable polite, this is what drew me to vintage racing and here in the first place.
As for your goal to get the other 99% of writers to agree to your terminology, I simply cannot help you there.
Truly regret ever posing the qustion here, in the first place.
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9th June 2011, 13:01 #13
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As far as most people are concerned, and indeed in practice is that Formula 1 started in 1950 and continues to this day. There may have been changes in the background a reforming of governing bodies, a recasting of the rules etc, but that doesn't change that there is a continuous line of Formula 1 all the way from 1950 to this day. And arguing over technicalities doesn't change that.
And to "do a Balestre" that's my decision therefore it's a good one
PS. I guess the first time out question is a difficult one, what do you consider a new car? As F1 teams generally turn up to the first race of the season with new cars anyway! I guess you could only count new teams with brand new entrants.
In terms of drivers, I don't believe a driver has ever won their first F1 race, although Villeneuve came mighty close in Australia 1996.Please 'like' our facebook page http://www.facebook.com/motorsportforums
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9th June 2011, 17:53 #14
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Giancarlo Baghetti won the French Grand Prix in 1961 although he had run in (and won) non-championship events prior.
¿Quién es el que anda aquí?
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9th June 2011, 20:59 #15
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Originally Posted by D28
The complex question of whether we should retrospectively apply the current situation where "Grand Prix", "World Champion" and "Formula 1" are synonyms to the past should be the subject of a separate thread.Duncan Rollo
The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.
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9th June 2011, 21:11 #16
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Taking off my moderator's hat:
If we were to include non-Championship F1 races then Stirling Moss scoring the [Costin/Chapman] Vanwall's debut win in the 1956 Daily Express International Trophy would be a contender. And Baghetti winning the 1961 Syracuse GP would be the Ferrari 156 winning on its debut as a Formula 1 car - and Baghetti winning on his Formula 1 debut. But the rules of this thread exclude non-Championship races ...Duncan Rollo
The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.
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9th June 2011, 21:29 #17
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Originally Posted by Mark
Yet another of the many cases of don't bother us with any actual history.
I had hoped for better, but then again, that was silly of me wasn't it?
Cheerio, Jean-Marie and gang!Popular memory is not history.... -- Gordon Wood
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9th June 2011, 22:54 #18
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Don,
I think this is simply a case of "There's a time and place for everything" - and this wasn't really the time or place.
Your expert knowledge is welcome here - but please curb the abrasiveness.Duncan Rollo
The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.
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10th June 2011, 08:15 #19
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Don, of course you are welcome here, but you have to remember that not everyone wishes to apply strict criteria to everything.
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10th June 2011, 13:25 #20
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As Pat Moynihan observed, while someone may be entitled to their own opinion, they are not entitled to their own facts. You -- collectively -- want your own facts and that is unacceptable to me. Therefore, time to leave and move on, although not necessarily elsewhere given that all the other fora are pretty much a waste of time as well when it comes to automotive history. Besides, speaking of time, I am way behind on my research and -- especially -- my writing and given that any time here is time away from that, I was going to have to cut back drastically or leave soon anyway. It was good while it lasted and I do appreciate the opportunity, but I truly see no reason to remain.
Thanks and best wishes.Popular memory is not history.... -- Gordon Wood
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