Whiney crybaby of the race?

[truefan72]

how is it trying to cheat when you get run off the track?

The mistake was not immediately giving back the position and living to fight another day in a faster and better car
I assume based on your reasoning then Ferrari also tried to cheat by deliberately pitting Massa to force a drive through, as well as Massa slowing down to let Alonso through to double down on that cheating right?

look Ferrari were clever and I would have hoped that Mclaren would have had the same intelligence to quickly realized what was going on and let those Ferrari's go. It is not as if they did not have a prior incident with similar circumstances to know what the eventual outcome would be if they kept button in front.

[Daniel]

I don't think Jenson cheated but I agree he must have realised he should've let Massa pass. Instead he allowed Ferrari to use clever team orders and get Alonso ahead.

It must be so demoralising for Massa to get the phone call this early in the season but to be fair he was slower than Alonso all weekend.

The use of the term "cheating" is I guess slightly generous on my part. But if you were Massa and Button got in front of you that way then I'm not sure you could call it anything else.

This isn't really sneaky against the spirit of the rules cheating of course, it was daft cheating which was so obvious that it was always going to get penalised. This sort of facepalm stuff surprises me with McLaren, it happened with Lewis in Australia when he let Trulli through and then the team claimed that Trulli had passed Lewis. If McLaren were just honest about these silly things then they'd be so much better off.

[Daniel]

how is it trying to cheat when you get run off the track?

The mistake was not immediately giving back the position and living to fight another day in a faster and better car
I assume based on your reasoning then Ferrari also tried to cheat by deliberately pitting Massa to force a drive through, as well as Massa slowing down to let Alonso through to double down on that cheating right?

look Ferrari were clever and I would have hoped that Mclaren would have had the same intelligence to quickly realized what was going on and let those Ferrari's go. It is not as if they did not have a prior incident with similar circumstances to know what the eventual outcome would be if they kept button in front.

The "cheat" wasn't for Jenson to go off the track to overtake, it was when he didn't give the place back. As you mention there are echoes of Spa and IMHO the overtake was a bit "cheatier" ( ) than Lewis' as at least Lewis let Kimi back past before he overtook him again.

[truefan72]

Which is a dumb thing to do.

If Jenson had simply let Massa and probably Alonso by then he'd have had a far better race and that's a fact.

which still doesn't amount to cheating, does it?
Oh, and when a Mclaren gives the position back, they still find a way to penalize them...just sayin'

[AndyL]

Martin Whitmarsh just took a leaf out of Arsene Wenger's book, apparently he didn't see the incident

[Daniel]

which still doesn't amount to cheating, does it?
Oh, and when a Mclaren gives the position back, they still find a way to penalize them...just sayin'

Like I said, look at it from Massa's position.

Lets say you and I are racing with you ahead and me behind and we're going into a corner where only 1 car will fit through and I'm a tiny bit ahead not having completed a successful overtake and take the escape road and get in front of you. If I'd kept on going for the corner I'd have never made it and I would have had to let you go through. Now of course no one expects me to crash into you rather than take the escape road, but it was what he did after that which turned it from an overtaking manouever which I had to get out of, to an overtaking manouever where I didn't properly pass you on the track, but where I took a shortcut and did it that way.

[Daniel]

Martin Whitmarsh just took a leaf out of Arsene Wenger's book, apparently he didn't see the incident

Then why the **** is he there? Should he not be watching the race or at least seeing replays of incidents like this?

[Rollo]

The use of the term "cheating" is I guess slightly generous on my part. But if you were Massa and Button got in front of you that way then I'm not sure you could call it anything else.

If I was Ferrari I would have told Massa to let sixteen cars past him. At the expense of a poor points paying position, you could conceivably keep your opponents also out of a points paying position. Could you prove team orders if not just a Ferrari, but a couple of Saubers, Toro-Rossos, Force Indias, Williams, Virgin and Lotii went past as well.
At the expense of one point today, you could have cost McLaren 8 points. From Ferrari's point of view, that would have been well worth it.

[truefan72]

Then why the **** is he there? Should he not be watching the race or at least seeing replays of incidents like this?

fair point

[AndyL]

Then why the **** is he there? Should he not be watching the race or at least seeing replays of incidents like this?

I'm sure you know what he really meant!