Donkey of the race - Belgian GP

[Warriwa]

At Red Bull none of the drivers are "attended to". They make their own way and this is very much in line with the ideology of Helmut Marko. When he was part of the same "gang" as Rindt in the early days, their driving antics were wild.

It was their credo that when ever one of them got into difficulties the person did not ask for help, because it was viewed as weakness and they wanted to see how he coped.

This is an intrinsic part of the reason why Torro Rosso and the Red Bull driver program appears to be so ruthless.

Vettel is not being "comforted" or supported in the same way that is done at other teams.

Sebastian Vettel is going through a tough period, but he has a tough supporter in the form of Marko and another tough as nails confidente and supporter in Bernie Ecclestone.

I am convinced that they are attracted to Seb Vet because he is so like late world champion.

Vettel will come through this period - and lets leave the silly monikers where they belong: with the idiot media - as a tougher driver with the rock solid knowledge that he did not ask for and did not get help. He did it himself.

He is the future of Red Bull Racing and he knows that he is well supported that way. He is mature way beyond his years and does not have a daddy at his side or any other form of security blanket.

Just as Schumi learnt from a tender age how to cope mentally, Sebastian in my view is even tougher at this age.

Circumstances will ultimately turn around and this season is far from over.

Yes, Vettel does get "pissed off" but thats because he wants to win and has to force a smile when he is anything but number 1 on the grid or at the end of the race. Winning for him IS the only thing and in a Senna way I think he is the only driver who means it in the same way in f1.

I am convinced that he is the quickest and most able driver over a qualifying lap - that day at Suzuka 2009 was definitely the most amazing qualifying session since the Schumacher Ferrari days.

He has demonstrated his ability to win in all conditions and this period of apparent brain fade is just that.

And when it is over - and it could be that at the track where he won his first grand prix in the Torro Rosso [!] - Monza.

Georgio Ascanelli was his RE. This is the man that has also engineered for Senna - and incidentally was one of the people on occassion that had to stop Senna from punchiing somebody out [marshall or fellow driver] - and he is as impressed by Vettel.

So lets relax and not rubbish Vettel. Give him the room and time he needs. For crying out loud the man is only 23!!!!!

Does your new found respect for Vettel originate from your immense dislike of Hamilton? Does this mean you will always support whoever can challenge Hamilton regardless of circumstances?

[SGWilko]

At Red Bull none of the drivers are "attended to". They make their own way

Hmmmm, I get the impression from comments from the team this year that, actually, Vettel is very much mollycoddled, whereas Mark is left to get on with.

Luckily for Mark, he has not only the experience, but also the mental strength to shrug this off and use this to his advantage by channeling the frustration to his benefit.

Vettel will deffo NOT like the new Crash Kid label, and that will stick like poop to a sheet.

Vettel needs a miracle to take the title this year. Red Bull need a title this year - they NEED to back Mark.

[markabilly]

You people who have never seriously raced, and even worse, never raced in wet conditions, you are sitting here as arm chair quarterbacks trying to micromanage what a driver should do and should not do, as though seconds were minutes in conditions about which you are without a clue.

The conditions were wet. PERIOD.
Traction can come and go faster than your little fingers can type, and faster than even the best of the racers can anticipate or react. Even with the best, a successful race in the rain is more a question of luck rather than skill.
And when traction disappears, the car will go where it wants.

And this where the FIA dumbutts failed at Spa a few years ago, with the Lewis stupid penalty, and this is where they failed at Spa again this year.

Many at this year's Spa would qualify as a driver of the race, but I saw none who would qualify as donkeys. NOT ONE.

[SGWilko]

You people who have never seriously raced, and even worse, never raced in wet conditions, you are sitting here as arm chair quarterbacks trying to micromanage what a driver should do and should not do, as though seconds were minutes in conditions about which you are without a clue.

The conditions were wet. PERIOD.

I think you are oversimplyfying things here fella.

The track was dry, then damp, then greasy, then wet and at one point we had some spray. And in between it dried out again.

However, I have noted that you alone are the authority on who was and who was not capable at Spa.

[SGWilko]

One thing that I don't understand from Spa, is the insistence by the Red Bull team on running Seb on full wets, even after he had destroyed one set.

To me, Seb needs to start telling the team what he wants, not what they think he needs, cos it aint working just now.

[markabilly]

I think you are oversimplyfying things here fella.

The track was dry, then damp, then greasy, then wet and at one point we had some spray. And in between it dried out again.

However, I have noted that you alone are the authority on who was and who was not capable at Spa.

Even worse as often tires did not match the conditions and drivers had no idea what to expect, when on this very long circuit, on making just one lap, the track is dry, sunny, cloudy, (all of which effect traction and the heat in the tires), as well as damp, greasy, wet and had some spray.

See here, you can watch da TV all you want, watch slow mo all you want, but that is not the real deal. Back in the day, my visibility of what to expect was much much better because there was not much blocking the view. Indeed not much different from that of the high mounted in-car camera view that you so typically see today.

And unlike today, I was not buried in the car, with this long flat nose, or as in some cases now, with the front body work having those bumps for front wheel attachments to the body, and various other things sticking up---and even back then, it was very difficult to see actual track conditions such as oil dropped by someone. Add in misting rain or full rain, and it became mostly guess work.

Jump forward to today's F1 car.

What little I have seen from the actual view of the driver shows very limited visibility to the point where I think the driver is relying too much on feel and intuition as to driving through the actual corners. Indeed in many corners, I doubt the driver can even see the actual apex of the corner. As to actually seeing the condition of the track surface, it must be near impossible in many corners and even on straights.

And why does everyone want rain at races? because it adds this uncertainity and excitment that is otherwise lacking from F1

So as you acknowledge that I am the "alone [are the] authority on who was and who was not capable" at Spa, I say judge not any of them in negative terms, when you have no clue as to what it was like be one of the drivers at Spa.

I saw no donkeys among the drivers, not one.

[ioan]

I think you are oversimplyfying things here fella.

Best things in life are the simple things!
So why complicate everything?

[jens]

What an unbelievable season Vettel is having. I mean it's like living through all your life experiences in one year. Wonder if he is capable of learning from them too like Hamilton has made through a major transformation in the last two seasons.

Everything that is possible has either gone wrong or has he done wrong. At least he can't be called "softy" racer like he was last year - he actually tries too hard. His racecraft is quite sloppy though - he wants much, but hasn't got the skills to handle a car properly in wheel-to-wheel battles. Actually whenever I watch him racing, there is always a feeling that an accident is around the corner. As there is a saying - at least someone has to entertain the public. Now it's his turn to fulfill that role in F1.

[Shifter]

It's true, if the simulators have gotten the viewpoint even close, the drivers can't see much at all. It's probably why one wonders why in the wet drivers put the wheels on the slippery painted line at the track edge in the wet and then have the inevitable spin entering a corner. I cannot drive with the driver view at all.

I disagree with the penalty but I do kind of understand the thought process as I just felt the collision coming from a mile away...when Seb got the run on Button I thought there was a high probability of a crunch, because of the conditions and because of Vettel's desperation...and that's exactly what happened, and with major championship implications. However it's true the precedent is no penalty for this sort of contact.

[Saint Devote]

When did Vettel declare that he was "desparate"? This has become a commonly used word in the press especially with the idiot German press now climbiing onto the bash Vettel bandwagon - and it is all nonsense.

It was a racing accident and at worst was a misjudgement - most probably misfortune.

Motor racing is like war - the best laid plans go wrong.

I wonder what all these finger pointers will say if Vettel wins the next three pole positions and wins several grands prix in the last SIX races. Hopefully it will shut them up - but fat chance - people like these always move the goal posts.