Miller: multiple chassis and manufacturers "very likely"

[elan 02]

A Ford/Lola or maybe Ford Cosworth/Lola sounds real good. Now if Chevy would come on board, lets say Chevy/ Dallara I think you would see the ICS come back quicker than any one has dreamed.

[Scotty G.]

1. You are still presupposing that there is some secret cabal of idiots out there keeping USAC grads out of Indy cars for purely stupid motives.

2. Hamilton and Fisher's track record indicates accuately what you ignore. They don't have the skill set from driving a midget or sprint car to adapt to a rear engined winged car. .

1. Yes, you nailed it. There are a whole lot of idiots in Indy Car now and a whole lot have been around in the past 20 years. Its why the sport is one life-support and nobody in America cares or watches.

If they were so damn smart, we wouldn't be in the sad shape we are in.


2. How did Bobby Doornbos, Taku Sato, Koskue Matsuura, EJ Viso, Tomas Scheckter, Mario Moraes, Ryan Briscoe, Mark Taylor, Mike Conway, Enrique Bernoldi, Jaime Camera, etc... do in their "transition" to Indy Cars?

Compare the carnage and million of dollars worth of equipment they destroyed (even though none of them ever set foot in a American oval track car before they got here) and get back to me on "who was prepared to tackle them formula road racing cars" and who wasn't.

The FACTS are that most of these formula car road racers are lost and aren't ready to drive an Indy Car either when they get to Indy Cars. But most are given a "pass" from owners, for 2 big reasons:

1. The driver's checkbook is more important to the owners then their performance on the track.

2. The owner's are almost all from road racing/sports car backgrounds. So they (like many of the fans who frequent message boards) have a preconceived air of superiority over American oval track grads/fans. So they are cut more slack and given more rope then a oval tracker would get in the same situation.

Davey Hamilton had a damn good Indy Car career. Was consistant and didn't crash. Never won a race, but was always in the top 5 in the late 90's. Was like Raul Boesel of this era. His crash at Indy this year was the first time in a race there he had ever touched the wall. Easy on equipment and safe to run wheel-to-wheel with.

Sarah Fisher is another one that has nothing to be ashamed of either. Has driven dog crap cars most of her career. Has hardly ever had a teammate. Won a pole at Kentucky. Finished 2nd to Hornish at Homestead. Another driver who is easy on equipment and safe to race with on the track.

And now both of these drivers are investing in the sport by owning teams in Indy Car and/or Indy Lights. So they will be involved going forward for years to come. Too bad some of the big stars of our sport will be gone the second they decide to get out of the seat and we won't see them again.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The really great drivers can peddle anything around pretty well - Andretti, Foyt, Gurney. The merely good have a much harder time making the transition. Than being said, there is also a bigger gap between the skills required for the different types of cars today than there was before. SCCA stopped being a training ground for OW drivers almost 20 years ago. The last one to make it from there was Vasser.

The last one was Vasser, but I don't think that is because the road to the IRL isn't valid, but just because no one has really stood out in Atlantics and the like and was so good people couldn't turn him down. Maybe I am wrong, for I know Hornish got to the IRL through Atlantics, but the reality is most aspiring American drivers get siphoned off into the NASCAR spin/money machine.....

[Scotty G.]

but the reality is most aspiring American drivers get siphoned off into the NASCAR spin/money machine.....

No, they go where they are wanted.

[nigelred5]

It was what we were told it was.....but I think the problem is too many people still think those people at the Sprint Car races can relate to Indy. The reality is a Sprint Car fan is more likely to watch NASCAR because rear engined cars with wings like an Indy car have little relevence to the guys sideways on dirt. The disconnect started in the 70's....

When the likes of Jan Opperman didn't go to Indy as the next step of the ladder, the thread was pulled tight, and when guys like Dave Blaney and Steve Kinser blazed a trail to NASCAR, the thread was snapped with Ryan Newman and Kasey Kahne and the like.

I don't know how Bernard can get these fans back easily. Tony George played lip service to it, but I don't really know what was done....

Maybe he could throw a few real bulls in the middle of those small bullrings like Iowa for a little extra Saturday night excitement. Seriously though, get a few current Indycar drivers in sprint cars again . I distinctly remember Damatta and Kanaan and a few other guys hitting the dirt a few years back in California. All the former dirt guys in NASCAR get back to the dirt tracks for a few all-star type events. I've got no problem with that being part of "the vision" if it's a true goal and not smoke and mirrors hiding TG's thinly veiled war for dominance of AOWR.

[nigelred5]

1. Yes, you nailed it. There are a whole lot of idiots in Indy Car now and a whole lot have been around in the past 20 years. Its why the sport is one life-support and nobody in America cares or watches.

If they were so damn smart, we wouldn't be in the sad shape we are in.


.......
2. The owner's are almost all from road racing/sports car backgrounds. So they (like many of the fans who frequent message boards) have a preconceived air of superiority over American oval track grads/fans. So they are cut more slack and given more rope then a oval tracker would get in the same situation.

Davey Hamilton had a damn good Indy Car career. Was consistant and didn't crash. Never won a race, but was always in the top 5 in the late 90's. Was like Raul Boesel of this era. His crash at Indy this year was the first time in a race there he had ever touched the wall. Easy on equipment and safe to run wheel-to-wheel with.

Sarah Fisher is another one that has nothing to be ashamed of either. Has driven dog crap cars most of her career. Has hardly ever had a teammate. Won a pole at Kentucky. Finished 2nd to Hornish at Homestead. Another driver who is easy on equipment and safe to race with on the track.

And now both of these drivers are investing in the sport by owning teams in Indy Car and/or Indy Lights. So they will be involved going forward for years to come. Too bad some of the big stars of our sport will be gone the second they decide to get out of the seat and we won't see them again.

I think this is a very important aspect that has been missing from indycars/ cart. etc. Owners like Ganassi and Penske esentially followed the oval track crowd to NASCAR and took the american oval track hopefuls with them where they are appreciated. They have both primarily hired off shore drivers for years in openwheel. Where are the links to the 70's and 80's Indycars and dirt tracks? Rahal has bascally been on the sidelines for a few years and really didn't even promote his son. Foyt has tried to carry on the tradition. The Unsers never got into ownership. Sadly guys like Rick Mears never went out on their own into ownership. Andretti, like him or loathe him (and his drivers) is generally keeping a whole $#!t load of cars on the track and has three Americans on track. Hopefully rumours are true and the new cars and engines will be dramatically cheaper than the Dallaras so a driver with a pocket full of cash from the mid west CAN actually get a legitimate shot in some decent hardware on the track and prove himself.

[Mark in Oshawa]

No, they go where they are wanted.

No Scotty, they go where they don't have to dig up a sponsor. Tony ran OW so far into obscurity, the owners cannot even afford to hire these guys. You keep on with your conspiracy....

[Chris R]

Scotty - I hear what you are saying - but I am not sure the oval guys have been passed by in any malicious sort of way... I live in the mid-Atlantic region of the east coast. I am about 3 hours from darn near half the American population. I am hard pressed to name a dirt oval of any significance in that same range - I could be wrong but I cannot think of any... I have Bridgeport and New Egypt in NJ, I think there is a track down in lower Delaware and I know there is pone or two toward central PA - but I do not think any host WoO or USAC.... As a result, I grew up with asphalt and road racing presented on TV and in print because that is what there was.. Since I am in such a population center, I am going to make the leap of faith that most fans in my region that are in my age group or younger came to be racing fans the same way..... Basically, we grew up outside the USAC mid-west crowd and have no real connection to that arm of AOWR.... I do not look down on it - it is just not in my "blood".

As AOWR (and all of racing) has become more about the corporate world, I think the fan base and the money base has shifted more to the coastal population/financial centers and further from the heartland. Even NASCAR has shifted dramatically from its more rural heritage.... The reason that the USAC guys are not getting a shot has as much to do with people like me having no more clue (often less of a clue) who the next dirt guy is as opposed to who the next road racer is.... It has nothing to do with personality, skill, nationality or anything other than exposure.... Because of the media and social outlet that are readily available to me, I have a much better idea of who Adam Carroll is than of who the newest sensation in USAC is....

Basically, I do not think the USAC drivers will help all of the IRL all that much - it will help the strong mid-west fan base and those who have good knowledge of USAC - but the vast majority of the population have no more clue about USAC than European Formula 3.....

I think you are right that these guys should be given a shot and should be respected by the racing community. I am equally sure that the best would be great Indy car driver (or drivers or anything else) but I am not sure it will make a ton of difference to the popularity of the sport....

That being said, I think it is a great idea to work with these guys and anything to help the sport even marginally is awesome - just don't expect miracles....

[Chris R]

you know, I think my previous post was supposed to go to the "big announcement" thread - I am getting too confused as they are all about the same stuff more or less!! My apologies and if a moderator would like to move it, please feel free....

[bblocker68]

Why do I feel like I'm at TF? lol.

I sometimes wonder if the entire Mid-West lives under a plastic bubble. The entire line of thinking is so much different than the rest of the populace.