Miller: multiple chassis and manufacturers "very likely"

[Mark in Oshawa]

Why do I feel like I'm at TF? lol.

I sometimes wonder if the entire Mid-West lives under a plastic bubble. The entire line of thinking is so much different than the rest of the populace.

I wonder about that too. You hear the USAC mid west guys talk, they invented racing. Well, in a sense they did, but they ceased to own it a long time ago.....

[nigelred5]

Zz

Scotty - I hear what you are saying - but I am not sure the oval guys have been passed by in any malicious sort of way... I live in the mid-Atlantic region of the east coast. I am about 3 hours from darn near half the American population. I am hard pressed to name a dirt oval of any significance in that same range - I could be wrong but I cannot think of any... I have Bridgeport and New Egypt in NJ, I think there is a track down in lower Delaware and I know there is pone or two toward central PA - but I do not think any host WoO or USAC.... As a result, I grew up with asphalt and road racing presented on TV and in print because that is what there was.. Since I am in such a population center, I am going to make the leap of faith that most fans in my region that are in my age group or younger came to be racing fans the same way..... Basically, we grew up outside the USAC mid-west crowd and have no real connection to that arm of AOWR.... I do not look down on it - it is just not in my "blood".

As AOWR (and all of racing) has become more about the corporate world, I think the fan base and the money base has shifted more to the coastal population/financial centers and further from the heartland. Even NASCAR has shifted dramatically from its more rural heritage.... The reason that the USAC guys are not getting a shot has as much to do with people like me having no more clue (often less of a clue) who the next dirt guy is as opposed to who the next road racer is.... It has nothing to do with personality, skill, nationality or anything other than exposure.... Because of the media and social outlet that are readily available to me, I have a much better idea of who Adam Carroll is than of who the newest sensation in USAC is....

Basically, I do not think the USAC drivers will help all of the IRL all that much - it will help the strong mid-west fan base and those who have good knowledge of USAC - but the vast majority of the population have no more clue about USAC than European Formula 3.....

I think you are right that these guys should be given a shot and should be respected by the racing community. I am equally sure that the best would be great Indy car driver (or drivers or anything else) but I am not sure it will make a ton of difference to the popularity of the sport....

That being said, I think it is a great idea to work with these guys and anything to help the sport even marginally is awesome - just don't expect miracles....

Williams grove speedway has WOO. THere are quite a few dirttracks in PA actually. IIRC hagerstown md also hosts WOO. We take the kids to airport speedway in New Castle DE several times a season and occasionally follow a buddy up to LANCO speedway to watch microsprints. The 600's are a blast. 1/8 mile dirt oval microsprints are about as grass-roots as you get.

[Scotty G.]

I wonder about that too. You hear the USAC mid west guys talk, they invented racing. Well, in a sense they did, but they ceased to own it a long time ago.....

Indy Car racing was born and bred in the American midwest.

Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Springfield, DuQuoin, Langhorne, Michigan.

The best ratings for Indy Car racing? Indianapolis, Columbus Ohio, Dayton Ohio.

The majority of Indy Car and Open Wheel racing fans are from the midwest. They were either born there or live there.


Where are the majority of American stock car fans from? The southeast. North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia. That is their home.

Where are the majority of American open wheel fans from? Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan.


That's just the way it is. Doesn't mean that NASCAR can't branch out and have races in the midwest or the southwest or the northeast. Doesn't mean that Indy Car shouldn't branch out and have races in the southwest, northeast or northwest either.

But these genre's homes, are where they are for a reason. Its called history and heritage.

[anthonyvop]

Indy Car racing was born and bred in the American midwest.

Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Springfield, DuQuoin, Langhorne, Michigan.

The best ratings for Indy Car racing? Indianapolis, Columbus Ohio, Dayton Ohio.

The majority of Indy Car and Open Wheel racing fans are from the midwest. They were either born there or live there.


Where are the majority of American stock car fans from? The southeast. North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia. That is their home.

Where are the majority of American open wheel fans from? Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan.


That's just the way it is. Doesn't mean that NASCAR can't branch out and have races in the midwest or the southwest or the northeast. Doesn't mean that Indy Car shouldn't branch out and have races in the southwest, northeast or northwest either.

But these genre's homes, are where they are for a reason. Its called history and heritage.

Then if what you say is true then LOGIC dictates that the IRL needs to change in order to expand it's fan base outside of the Midwest in order to grow.

[Bob Riebe]

You are still presupposing that there is some secret cabal of idiots out there keeping USAC grads out of Indy cars for purely stupid motives.

Hamilton and Fisher's track record indicates accuately what you ignore. They don't have the skill set from driving a midget or sprint car to adapt to a rear engined winged car. THAT is why all these posers from Europe and road racers race Indy cars. It is easy to demonize the team owners as idiots, but the fact is guys like Chip Ganassi and Roger Penske aren't looking in USAC to find Indycar drivers, and they want to just win. If the USAC guys had the skill set, you would see Penske and Ganassi looking for these guys.....

Roger did look in USAC for drivers....and he found one. His name was Ryan Newman and it was obvious that his skill set and instincts honed in dirt cars would work better in NASCAR.

You can rail against the evil owners all you like, the fact is driving a sprint car is better training to drive NASCAR and not a modern Indy car. Unless Indy went back to being a track where you raced a modern version of the roadster, this will not change.

Going to NASCAR has little to nothing to do with past experience of talent, it is simply about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ without exception.

Indy cars, you bring money, stock-cars you get paid money.

[Bob Riebe]

Said very well, He, Bernard, should be looking at usac, but He should also be looking at scca and karting. I've always thought that.

Sadly the SCCA, due to its incompetence, stopped being a source for proffessional drivers over twenty years ago.

[Bob Riebe]

Why do I feel like I'm at TF? lol.

I sometimes wonder if the entire Mid-West lives under a plastic bubble. The entire line of thinking is so much different than the rest of the populace.

The REST of the populace being whom and where.

Oswego is not in the mid-west but is known by many fans here.

Sprint cars are not hurting but neither are they the national news they were even ten years ago.
Open Wheel magazine is gone; WoO is not nearly as big as it once was.
Besides Kinser, how many well known WoO drivers are still driving?

The sprint/modified fan loss to Indy Car racing is a HUGE loss, but at the same time, while sprint/modifieds are doing well, they no longer have the national press they did a decade ago.
Short track racing has problems with govt. asses sticking their noses where they do not belong, but not near the money the millionaire crowd has.

Here a new dirt track opened thirty miless away, but two others closed, this year, one closer and one only thirty miles farther.
The govt. cluster-f--- causing the economy to fizzle is part of the reason, but pathetic little things like not getting a proper permit for a type of building, bathrooms not built properly, lunch counter in wrong place, etc. are the only things that shut one down, although the local govt. closing the track for said infractions caused the track to miss loan payments, so it is closed and for sale.

[Bob Riebe]

I wonder about that too. You hear the USAC mid west guys talk, they invented racing. Well, in a sense they did, but they ceased to own it a long time ago.....

Read Outlaw Sprint Car Driver and you will know or have a very good idea where it originated in the U.S.A., and probably part of Canada. (People also forget Mexico had dirt tracks pre-WWII also.)

[anthonyvop]

One problem we have is the insitance people have in calling the IRL "Open Wheel Racing" like it still has anything to do with USAC/Sprint/WoO type racing.

The IRL is Formula Car racing.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Read Outlaw Sprint Car Driver and you will know or have a very good idea where it originated in the U.S.A., and probably part of Canada. (People also forget Mexico had dirt tracks pre-WWII also.)

I know that Sprint's and Midgets are mainly a midwest idea, but the midgets go back to the 20's and racing on the board tracks, and they were on the coasts as well.

Oval racing is a uniquely American form of racing. Sprints and Midgets are throwback "retro" style race cars that have evolved not much from those days. Front engine, upright, drive shaft under the driver, big wheel, similar body work, just the addition of safety gear like the cage and scattershields, plus the big tires.

IT has about as much in common with the modern IRL car as a street car does. Aero really isn't used the same way (WoO cars have the huge wings, but that is about the only aero you see in this form of racing) while IRL cars are massaged in the wind tunnel. The ride height, driver's experience and the symetrical as opposed to asymetrical layout in the USAC cars dictate a totally different mindset for driving.

Bob you know this, I know this, but for some, they keep thinking people from the USAC world can just jump and run quick at Indy right away without ever understanding the change in attitude and style of driving.