cars in 2011

[dimviii]

Dont worry new rules that make GrN more competitive are coming.

spill the beans Tomi

[Mirek]

Is that a good thing though? That surely means more expense?
Personally, a GpN car should be showroom spec with the addition of safety equipment - a cheap way into the sport. They are pretty expensive at the moment.

+1, Making Gr.N, S2000 and WRC more equal is neither logical nor good for anything. Why do we have three classes for them than?

[AndyRAC]

]+1, Making Gr.N, S2000 and WRC more equal is neither logical nor good for anything. Why do we have three classes for them than?

I've never understood trying to make S2000 and GpN equal. S2000's are proper competition cars, designed for Motorsport. GpN are modified cars used in Motorsport. Compare GpN now and 10-15 years ago.....

[Tomi]

]+1, Making Gr.N, S2000 and WRC more equal is neither logical nor good for anything. Why do we have three classes for them than?

It's good for those drivers who want a cheaper alternative, if a driver can drive 2-3 rallies for the same cost he drives 1 with a S2000, whats bad?

[Mirek]

It's good for those drivers who want a cheaper alternative, if a driver can drive 2-3 rallies for the same cost he drives 1 with a S2000, whats bad?

Running cost of Gr.N car rose enormously in last few years with new rules comming. My point is that running costs of WRC, S2000 and N4 are getting closer and closer to each other while they all grow up. In the moment there is no real gr.N 4WD. The gap between N3 and N4 classes is huge now and that doesn't make the step up any easier. I really don't think that it's good way. In my opinion S2000 cars should have been separated from Gr.N cars since the very beginning and Gr.N cars shouldn't have become almost Gr.A. The only way to drive cheap Gr.N car now is to use downgraded one but that eliminates You from higher competition right from start.

[rv65]

Thats the problem with GrpN. Someone who wants to build up experience, can't win in GrpN, because someone with money is able to buy a better car. The groupN cars are quite expensive. A nicely equipped Tommi Makinen Impreza is around 137,000 EUR and I think that is the discounted price. He starts at around 88,000 EUR but that is just a basic groupN. This car has cusco diffs, lightened components, spec2 engine, etc. I agree, GroupN should be like R4 or something like that where you take a production STi or EVO and add the rally specific stuff to it, but not completely modify it into a group A like kit car. I consider GrpN as a kit car class, due to the amount of mods that they do to the cars.

[HaCo]

The only reason to bring them in the same class is because there are not enough manu's in the different classes: Gr N 2, WRC 2. Only S2000 is a succes and it seems that that class will be destroyed by the 1.6T WRC concept.

Gr N should be Gr N again, so showroom car with few updates.

1.6T WRC ok, but also for national championships and certainly not more expensive then the current S2000.

Drop WRC for being way to expensive.

[Tomi]

]Running cost of Gr.N car rose enormously in last few years with new rules comming. My point is that running costs of WRC, S2000 and N4 are getting closer and closer to each other while they all grow up.

According to Mäkinen, he could have entry 2-3 GrN cars in last years NORF to the same price as Kimis S2000, thats less than 1 year ago.
I dont know exactly what the new rules will be, but no major changes that would rise the "money used/km" go sky high, in other words a good alternative for privateers in national and international series, who want to drive more with less money.

[Mirek]

You're still comparing only with the more expensive variant. Let it be where it is and have a look to the opposite side (or just have a look on absolute numbers, not proportional rate to S2000). The difference between N4 and lower classes is bigger and bigger every year. The running cost of N4 car si now some 1/3 higher than 2-3 years a go and in that time it was higher than before 2006 when there were different rules etc.

I don't really care very much how expensive is the top level of rallying but N4 is not top level car. It's only a step on a staircase. And that step is more difficult to cross every year.

[Rally Power]

Maybe it shouldn’t be that expensive to throw away 50kg and to use a 36mm restrictor in actual N4 cars, but main problem about N4 it’s the number of manufacturers involved, specially after the close down of Ralliart, that probably will make Gr.N to look like an Impreza trophy (will there be a Evo 11 suitable for rally use?).

The number of manufacturers involved in S2000 has opened a large door to top national teams in order to get importers and dealers sponsoring, but that door will be fastly closed by the prohibitive costs of 1.6WRC cars, mainly because the direct involvement of factory teams in the new category will make FIA’s efforts to control costs completely helpeless.

The lack of N4 manufacturers and the huge costs of 1.6WRC should make FIA rethink S2000 new homologations ending, letting this well born category to fill the R4 vacant space, essentially directed to regional and national series - living 1.6WRC cars where they belong: the world championship.