GT Class

[dimviii]

Dimviii, I don't know how fast you drove them if you haven't noticed the disatvanteges of 911's.....you are just mentioning power advantage....as that the HP number is the most significant on rally stage(s)....it is just a part of the whole picture.....

no i havent said something like that,thats your conclusion,not mine.

[Sulland]

But as long as everyone knows the rules and regulations, they can choose the car they would like to use. If you love driving a 911, and they beat a R5, that is ok in my book! The sound and the downfall of a rear-engined car compared to a modern 4wd car, made for the pupose, makes for cool slides, and locked front wheels. The fans love it!

We are back to the discussion of private tuned cars vs manufacurer tuned cars.

And we need many engineering firms that can make money from rally. We are in this case talking a national championship, and drivers that do this for the fun of it. Let them!! National ASN need to grow a pair, and support their customers, and not the manufacturers.

R-GT would be a perfect class for this, but tuners need to be allowed to put in a bigger restrictor, that gives them maybe 100 hp more than today!

[dimviii]

As others have said an R5 car has a lot of advantages over a GT for rallying (suspension travel, 4wd etc), so if you want them to compete with each other you have to let the GT keep some advantage in other areas like power. Maybe the Spanish Porsches had too much advantage previously, its a challenge for rule-makers to get the balance right.

no you havent got to have any advantage at cars are not build for rallies,to make them competetive.
There are rules.And they will be rules for ever.Try to understant it.

[Mirek]

Above all, ASN’s should be looking to get as much competitors as they can, for their national series. R5’s are great rally cars, very well developed and built, but they are (like most of all the others R cars) a kind of monopoly, being supplied by only 4 or 5 official tuners. This way prices will tend to be very high (as we all know), so ASN’s must look around to find other compatibles ways for less wealthy crews get their share of competitive rallying as well.

Exactly. And that's why replacing 5 rally-addicted manufacturers with 1 totally indifferent to rallying is wrong move. Tell me what other choice do You have in Spain if You want to compete with Porsches? Only Porsche. There's no other way You could beat them on regular basis. As a result You have 5-8 Porsches and 0 R5 in the championship. So You didn't win 1 manufacturer more but lost 5. Do You believe that it's good that none of the rally-addicted manufacturers are interested in the championship? Why?

Establishing a performance balance for different types of cars can be hard, but it’s achievable if there’s a will to do it.

That's exactly what is missing in Spanish rules and why anything else except Porsches disappeared.

But as long as everyone knows the rules and regulations, they can choose the car they would like to use.

No, You can't chose when the rules are made that way that there is only one option if You want to win - Porsche.

If you love driving a 911, and they beat a R5, that is ok in my book! The sound and the downfall of a rear-engined car compared to a modern 4wd car, made for the pupose, makes for cool slides, and locked front wheels. The fans love it!

Except they rarely drive sideways. Those cars use traction control. They rarely drift in slow corners and they are slow in fast corners. The only spectacular thing about them is sound and look.

We are back to the discussion of private tuned cars vs manufacurer tuned cars.

I'm for privately tuned cars although preferably under FIA rules (which would need to rebuild current homologation system but that's something what manufacturers won't allow).

And we need many engineering firms that can make money from rally. We are in this case talking a national championship, and drivers that do this for the fun of it. Let them!! National ASN need to grow a pair, and support their customers, and not the manufacturers.

R-GT would be a perfect class for this, but tuners need to be allowed to put in a bigger restrictor, that gives them maybe 100 hp more than today!

The only way how to make R-GT cars something widespread is to allow them to win overall - I mean under FIA rules. In that moment they are interesting for manufacturers and those have the power to create proper rules. Privateers won't change anything in global. Let's be realistic, rallying is a marketing tool for manufacturers, why shall they allow some privateers to meddle into their business with cars from manufacturer whose playground is somewhere else?

[GravelBen]

no you havent got to have any advantage at cars are not build for rallies,to make them competetive.
There are rules.And they will be rules for ever.Try to understant it.

Of course there are rules - you are just saying you want the rules to give R5 cars advantage in every way instead of just some ways.

[GravelBen]

Exactly...

Good points Mirek - if that has become the situation with the Spanish championship then the rules have definitely been out of balance.

I agree about RGT, I'd like to see FIA allow them to be competitive enough to at least have an outside chance of winning some events.

Your earlier comments about wanting the same cars to be eligible for more championships makes sense for Europe as well - though its not an issue here in NZ where you can't just drive to another country to compete!

[dimviii]

Of course there are rules - you are just saying you want the rules to give R5 cars advantage in every way instead of just some ways.

change sport,rally is too difficult for you to understant the rules.

[Rally Power]

Good points Mirek - if that has become the situation with the Spanish championship then the rules have definitely been out of balance.

Spanish rules were in favour of GT's, now they are in favour of R5's...still no balance at all.

We are back to the discussion of private tuned cars vs manufacurer tuned cars.
And we need many engineering firms that can make money from rally. We are in this case talking a national championship, and drivers that do this for the fun of it. Let them!! National ASN need to grow a pair, and support their customers, and not the manufacturers!

You’re totally right Sulland, but I fear FIA policy to endorse official manufacturers tuners is becoming ridiculously overwhelming.

Forget rally cars diversity and local tuners heritage, nowadays what matters in our rally countries is to have a decent number of R5’s entries in order to proudly announce to the rest of the civilized rally world: we have x, y or z R5’s in our championship!

[Mirek]

Forget rally cars diversity and local tuners heritage, nowadays what matters in our rally countries is to have a decent number of R5’s entries in order to proudly announce to the rest of the civilized rally world: we have x, y or z R5’s in our championship!

5 different brands of R5 cars mean more diversity than 8 same Porsches, or?

[pantealex]

This is WRC forum and most of you are talking national GT-class.

ie.
I believe that in WRC R-GT they use same tyres than everyone else (also in gravel)