GT Class

[Simmi]

Was nice to see a few of these cars out on international events for a couple of years. Fun while it lasted.

[Mirek]

And nobody denied others the chance to build an RGT car, and nobody denied R5 drivers who are worried an RGT might occasionally be faster the chance to drive RGT instead. Thats kindof the point in having different classes

Sir, the Spanish GT cars are very far from R-GT regulations. They are national curiosity which works in specific local conditions and as such they unfortunately helped to isolate Spanish rally scene from the international one. In my opinion it's not that good idea to differ too much from international rules because it makes it very difficult for locals to get to the international level.

Please don't confuse things. Porsche never built R-GT car. All the cars which were built are private initiatives and all of them are slower than R5 cars. No manufacturer including Porsche is interested in R-GT class simply because those cars are made not to win. It's very misleading to confuse Spanish cars with R-GT ones. Those are different kind.

[GravelBen]

Fair enough, I didn't know the Spanish cars were so different.

I think the general point is valid though, why restrict them so much instead of just letting them run in their own class? Would you restrict a historic class car to make sure it doesn't have more power than a new R5?

[Mirek]

It's not so easy question if such class can win overall. In my opinion the overall top classes shall follow FIA sporting code but of course I'm not national ASN of every country. It's just my personal opinion.

[dimviii]

Fair enough, I didn't know the Spanish cars were so different.

I think the general point is valid though, why restrict them so much instead of just letting them run in their own class? Would you restrict a historic class car to make sure it doesn't have more power than a new R5?

let me try to explain you.

We have 5-8-10 drivers that they have spent 200-300k euro to compete at Spanish-Belgium -Italian championship.
Somebody comes with a gt car with 420 bhp and 300mm width tyre and taking advantage (from the 100-120 bhp plus at same weight),at straights(at corners he is slower) and become champion.
All the other drivers while they are much better/faster,cant become champions,due to power/tyres advantage.They will win a class,not a championship.So there is no need to spent 200-300k for a win class,when somebody with less than half money can become champion from these advantages.
Rallyes always are run under rules.For decades and at ALL classes and championships.And rgt cars had big advantage from rules at power and tyres width.
Thats not rallying.
Its the same as i would like to win the champions league and participate with a team with 15 players against 11 players for all the other teams.
Maybe you havent got any problem to watch football with 15 players against 11,but thats not football.
If Vallejo or somebody else wants to win the local championship,there is only one way.To buy/rent a r5 car and compete against the other drivers.With same power.and same tyres.

[GravelBen]

I understand what you're saying, but if they can go faster and win for half the cost then why not do it? If the other drivers are better and want to win that championship they could buy a GT car too instead of an R5.

I don't see why the most expensive car has to win, unless the goal is to make drivers spend more money on those cars (which may be what the R5 manufacturers want, but is it best for the sport?).

I know that young drivers moving up the ranks need experience in the right sort of car if they want to reach WRC and they also want to win championships, but similar choices apply at other levels too - if a young talented driver spends a season in an R2 car to refine his technique while other drivers with less long-term goals jump into turbo 4wd cars sooner, the guy in the R2 wouldn't expect the faster cars to be restricted to R2 pace so that he can win the championship!

Ideally for spectator interest you would have a variety of different cars with different advantages, but equal chance of winning overall. And that may be what they're trying to achieve with the restrictions on the GT cars, but I get the impression its gone too far and now the GT cars have no chance of winning?

Another way of managing it is how NZRC used to run, where faster cars (Grp-A etc) could enter and win events but only Grp-N was eligible for championship points.

[Rally Power]

We have 5-8-10 drivers that they have spent 200-300k euro to compete at Spanish-Belgium -Italian championship.
Somebody comes with a gt car with 420 bhp and 300mm width tyre and taking advantage (from the 100-120 bhp plus at same weight),at straights(at corners he is slower) and become champion.
All the other drivers while they are much better/faster,cant become champions,due to power/tyres advantage.They will win a class,not a championship.So there is no need to spent 200-300k for a win class,when somebody with less than half money can become champion from these advantages.
Rallyes always are run under rules.For decades and at ALL classes and championships.And rgt cars had big advantage from rules at power and tyres width. Thats not rallying.(...)
If Vallejo or somebody else wants to win the local championship,there is only one way.To buy/rent a r5 car and compete against the other drivers.With same power.and same tyres.

Are you also against Nikara and the others guys in Finland using GrN+ Evos and Imprezas? They’re also capable to beat R5’s with old cars that should cost under 100.000€!

Btw, if a guy in an R5 can be pissed to see a half priced 911 or Impreza beating him, what about RRC’s drivers? They also got their half a million cars severely limited to level S2000’s and R5’s power, but they were delighted to run their downgraded WRC’s (till FIA managed to throw them out of the road with the 28mm restrictor!).

I agree with the previous post: Rally needs diversity and there’s no problem to put at the same level different kinds of cars and get drivers with smaller budgets fighting alongside top drivers and teams for regional or national championships.

It’s true that unlimited 911’s were a bit too strong for R5’s (btw, 911’s are cheap to buy and run, because most of them are old racing cars used in former Porsche GT3 Cup’s around the world) but the same way FIA managed to balanced RRC’s with R5’s during last seasons, they could also managed to get a reasonable compromise with GT’s (and even with N4/R4, like now the Fins are doing).

Somehow, the 39mm restrictor was a sign that FIA was simply allowing RGT without giving them a proper chance to be competitive, and it’s a shame to see Spain ASN following FIA path. For sure some kind of limitation was needed when the 3.8 911 was introduced, but with R5 getting each day more competitive it’s a bit stupid to restrain them now so severely.

[Mirek]

It's not a shame that that Spanish ASN starts to follow FIA way. They do what is logical. The isolation of their home series from international competition is not good for them and having no successor to Sainz or even Sordo for a decade is one of the signs. You can blame FIA for making the GT rules in such a way that they are doomed to be nothing more than a curiosity on stages but not local ASNs for synchronizing with FIA.

[pantealex]

I would like to have FIA rules also in Finland!

[MartijnS]

Timothy van Parijs and Jochem Claerhout have confirmation that they can start with their Porsches in their national configuration, so not RGT in Ypres ERC field.