The 'oh no it wasn't', 'oh yes it was' fair/unfair team orders and contract clauses thread

[Hondo]

Well, he wouldn't have got the big salary rise and contract renewal for a start. He might even have gotten himself fired.

In which case he would have gotten a win and lost a job he said he didn't like.

In cases where team orders don't seem to make much difference in the grand scheme of things, maybe the reasons lay elsewhere.

Maybe, just maybe various team members, family members of team members, friends of team members, and managers of team members had large wagers down with various sport books about who was going to win. By the time of the Michael-Rubens fiasco I would guess that on a bet on Michael to win, the bettor would have to wager many, many dollars to win one dollar. An unecessary Schumacher loss could have been financially devastating to some.

[jens]

If Barrichello hadn't let Schumacher through in Austria '02, I doubt he would have been sacked immediately in mid-season. Who would have replaced him? Badoer? : More likely his contract wouldn't have been renewed after 2002, which I think hadn't been done by that moment.

But I agree with the notion that the cases of Williams '81 and Ferrari '02 should be viewed in the same manner. ArrowsFA1's main argument in the other thread of "Reutemann having the opportunity to fight for the title" doesn't really hold any water at all, sorry. Barrichello would have never managed to fight for the title against Schumacher in the same car, team orders or not.

Before 1981 and during contract signings (whenever they were done) Williams may have calculated as well that over a full season Jones is a better bet for the title than Reutemann, but well they got that one wrong, so they should take the full blame. At least Ferrari got the driver right.

[V12]

If Barrichello hadn't let Schumacher through in Austria '02, I doubt he would have been sacked immediately in mid-season. Who would have replaced him? Badoer? : More likely his contract wouldn't have been renewed after 2002, which I think hadn't been done by that moment.

But I agree with the notion that the cases of Williams '81 and Ferrari '02 should be viewed in the same manner. ArrowsFA1's main argument in the other thread of "Reutemann having the opportunity to fight for the title" doesn't really hold any water at all, sorry. Barrichello would have never managed to fight for the title against Schumacher in the same car, team orders or not.

Before 1981 and during contract signings (whenever they were done) Williams may have calculated as well that over a full season Jones is a better bet for the title than Reutemann, but well they got that one wrong, so they should take the full blame. At least Ferrari got the driver right.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Williams in 1981 weren't just as in the wrong as Ferrari in 2002. If Reutemann had pulled over at the final corner in Rio for Jones to win, there would probably have been a similar outcry, but he didn't.

[tinchote]

Jones's season was not that crappy. He finished third in the title race, just three points behind his team-mate, and they had the same number of wins each (2).

Fair enough. Although his second win was that Las Vegas race, where Reutemann had whatever issue his car had, and Piquet was just praying for the race to finish.

If I tell you that with one race to spare he was 25% below his teammate contracted to let him pass (37 points to 47), it doesn't sound like a great season. Or 7 races mid-season where he only scored once.

[tinchote]

By the way, I'm loving this thread

The very reason I came to these forums more than 7 years ago was that, after Austria 2002, Patrick Head was on record saying that it was "the most hypocritical thing he had seen in F1 history". As someone who was watching Rio 1981 live and was following Reutemann, I couldn't take it. I was so incensed that I had to find a place to vent and that's how I signed up here

Anyway, I like discussing these things.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Good sportsmanship on Fangio's part.

Something Didier Pironi should have done, and maybe we would have seen a few more years of Gilles.....but then again who knows?

Team orders go against my personal philosophy of let the chips fall where they may, but racing is a business, and no more so than in f1.....