so why the Duc so hard to ride or has Nicky lost his loving touch?

[markabilly]

I would be very tempted to say that Nicky has lost his touch, except all those former Duc riders who also appear to have lost their touch, go elsewhere from the Duc and are suddenly back on top......?????????????

[NinjaMaster]

The Ducati clearly has significant problems that are hidden by the genius of Casey Stoner. The fact that no-one has been able to ride the thing fast (relatively speaking ) aside from the occassional flash shows this and if anything happens to Casey, the red bullet is in danger of being shown up by even the Zooks and Kwak.
It's a shame for Nicky because, even though I think he's no more than mid-pack these days, he's still better than tail end Charlie so hopefully the 'Ducati experience' doesn't kill off his MotoGP career. On the other hand, nicky fighting Haga and Spies (and Edwards, Toseland and/or Vermeulen?) in WSB is a pretty exciting prospect!

[Corny]

One of the strong points of the Ducati GP are the electronics (well, that's said at least!)

Nicky is not the man for a high electronic bike. He might have the right racing lines, but I think he's not the man to fully open the throttle when coming out a corner

We'll see if he's able to develop during the season.

[patnicholls]

The other Ducati riders have had flashes of decent results - Marco had a 5th last year in China which is now long-forgotten, Toni Elias had a couple of podiums (and is now doing nothing back on a Honda), and Kallio and Canepa have had a couple of half-decent-for-rookie top tens early on this time. And Loris - whilst not a regular contender like he was on the 990s - wasn't rubbish by any means. The trick for everyone other than Casey seems to be doing it week in, week out. There's also a *slight* bit of exagerration on the difference between 'other' Ducatis and satellite Hondas - when did you last see a satellite Honda win a race? (maybe 2005 with either Marco or Alex Barros?)

Conventional wisdom (or at least, the people who made the most noise) had said that Casey's ability to get the bike to work was down to mastering the electronics. However, recent reports about Nicky have suggested quite the opposite - that Casey had suggested that Nicky should 'try a simpler setting', i.e. turn much of it down/off. Almost an echo of when you play a computer game and it tells you that you can have the ABS, auto gearbox etc on to help you but that you can go quicker without them if you can handle it. Thats obviously an oversimplification but may be relevant in some way.

On the whole though, it remains a mystery.

[neninja]

It is a strange one

That's now 3 former world champions who've struggled to get consistent performances on the Duc 800. Ducati must be worried that if anything happened to Casey they'd struggle to get top 10 finishes.

Personally I think the bike is probably pretty average - maybe on a par with the satellite Honda's or Suzuki but Casey can find that extra bit of something that no-one else has managed to find. I think becoming a factory rider made him more rounded and he is the difference - he'd be winning no matter what bike he was on right now.

[ShiftingGears]

He beat Pedrosa in 2006, when they had 990's and I feel that Pedrosa really wouldn't manage to haul that thing around. Every year since then his teammates have wiped the floor with him.

[ArmchairBikeFan]

I think Nicky still has what it takes. To ride a superbike.

These 800cc bikes seem to be horribly difficult to ride fast, really on a knife edge, and the Ducati's probably the worst of the bunch in that respect. I reckon the problem is that Stoner just has the sheer natural talent to ride the thing, so when the engineers, or Nicky, ask what he's doing right, Casey just says "Ummmm..... I dunno, mate." Poor Nicky just doesn't have a clue what to change, all he can do is ride and ride and ride, hoping he finds inspiration.

[gco0307]

Without meaning to sound flippant, if I knew the answer I would be working for Ducati in MotoGP, but given that I am not a Ducati employee I can only hypothesise like the rest of us so here are my 2 cents worth.

The first and most crucial aspect to the whole question is whether others are unable to ride the bike to it's potential, or whether Stoner is riding the bike well beyond it's potential whilst the other three (including the satellite here) are at the true potential of the bike. Of course, this can easily be countered by saying that if CS can get a high result that it proves the bike is capable. Whilst that is logical, I tend to disagree (does that make me illogical) and think that the issue is that CS is indeed over-riding the bike and making it look better than it should be, but that the other three are not reiding the bike as well as could be. Basically, to me the true capability of the bike is less than CS but above the remaining riders and the issue really is where is the potential.

I say this as CS has proven himself in all classes to be an extremely quick rider and was earmarked by some a while ago as a true proidigous talent, so to me his talent is not in question. In short, he is a freak at riding mototcycles extremely fast as he has immense skill, feel, talent and a focused mental approach that makes him look fearless. Basically, he is a racers racer and that is crucial in achieving results (IMO, Lorenzo is the same and excluding Rossi for obvious reasons).

It is said that CS uses full electronics which seems to be a point of discussion as by some reports he uses a high level, by others a medium level and yet some say he uses hardly any electronics input. The improtant factor here being to define electronics as most seem to acquaint electronics with Traction Control (TC) but TC plays only a small part in the overall electronics package. IMO, CS uses electronics in the way they were designed and places his full confidence in these electronics as an aid for his end aim, which is to win. The sheer fact that he can do this is a positive testament to his racers ability as all racers want to use their equipment to it's maximum.

I tend to feel that the Ducati's issues are more that it is an extraordinarily narrow focus machine and as such you either can or cannot ride it, simple, there is no secret to style or substance, just feel.

The Yamaha is a bike that anybody can get on and ride fast, the Honda are consistent as are the Suzuki, it is only the Ducati that has a massive disparity and to me that is further proof that the difference is Stoner who is getting results beyond the bike. Yes, that may well seem as though CS is a god, he is not that but he is a talent beyond most within the paddock today and I for one enjoy watching him wring that bloody thing.

So, basically I have no idea.







Garry

[leopard]

I think as of this stage, Ducati has technically better potential power than the rest. SBK result is kind of clue that their mass product is stronger than average. Haga proves me wrong that previosly I thought him rider without champ mentality regardless he rides bike with superb performance he would not there at place better than challenging as runner up, at least he is now leading in the classement.

Stoner is rider who can transform the power correctly. I'd thought of him in case he can translate charracter of Ducati he would be the first man who can do something average rider can't. Any other device such as electronic, tyres, chasis are to support performance of engine in order to deliver result more or at least not lessen the power. In motogp where every development of each device widely opens, this is what the competitors should pay more attention at the opponents weakness as their prominence. Knowing that chassis hasn't yet perfectly worked out with the GP engine, they dig it more to compensate their chasis to be more compatible with the engine.

Ducati can be faster down on the straight, but the likes of Yamaha, Honda, and Suzuki might be more friendly on corner speed. At the tracks involving more corners, they could score lap time equal or even better than Ducati.
In all it's about rideability of the bike for every single lap and for the whole race. imo

[NinjaMaster]

I remember an article in an issue of Australian Motorcycle News magazine last year that covered the topic of why no-one bar Stoner can ride the Ducati consistently fast. What the article basically said was that Ducati build their bike in a completely different approach to the Japanese manufacturers and thus it has to be ridden comletely differently. You brake at different points to the Japanese bikes, take different lines to the Japanese bikes and accelerate differently as well. If you try ride it like a Japanese bike, even pushing to crashing, you can still be slow on it.
Basically, it was said that the Japanese bikes are built with user-friendliness in mind, and the performance increased and refined to go faster. Ducati on the other hand come from another angle - aim for maximum performance and then refine it back the minimum amount required for a rider to be able to handle it. To my mind, this means that only the absolute skillful elite can find it's absolute limits, any slightly lesser talents are tamed by the bike. This is obviously a problem for Ducati if they wish to run more than 1 or 2 bikes. Somehow they need to make the bike more accessible to the 'lesser' riders without losing too much performance or cut back to 2 riders and replace Hayden with a Rossi/Lorenzo/Pedrosa type.