4wd in F1?

[Zico]

I read this on another forum and not sure of its credability or initial source..

"Basically, the major changes for 2010 are a change of minimum weight to 620kg, and the ban on refuelling.

However, the cost capped teams will get the following breaks.


More flexibility on the adjustable front wings, that's a higher motion range and less limitations on the changes per lap.
Movable rear wings, provided at all times they stay within the rules.
No engine rev limit
No limit to engines per season
Double maximum KERS boost to 120kW, to both axles.
Four wheel drive
Would it be worth a team's while to go for 4WD? Would it be possible to make a car that's on weight with it? Would the weight distribution be significantly harmed?

Just some thoughts. We could have several interesting variations next year."

With regards to 4wd.. I take it they must be talking about using the Kers system to power the front wheels? Although it makes good sense from an engineering point of view.. icorporating the Kers system with no major weight/transmission loss penalties suffered by conventional sytems and also without the need for a front differential?
I already think they have too much grip and feel that this would be a big mistake if 4wd cars were to appear in F1.

Thoughts?

[V12]

It's happened before - in the late 60s.

Back then, 4WD largely petered out not because it was outlawed, but simply because the extra weight and complexity resulted in an overrall net performance loss, with the technology of the time.

The driving force behind it was largely due to the change in engine regs from 1.5 litre engines to 3 litre, and so the reasoning went, having all four wheels driven would allow that power to be harnessed more effectively.

As it turned out, advances in tyre technology and aerodynamics (which was still VERY new at the time, wings only first appeared on F1 cars in the third year of the 3 litre formula) meant that the new breed of engines could be handled effectively with the existing 2WD format, without all the drawbacks of 4WD.

Would things be different now? Possibly, but F1 cars are already designed underweight, and the whole KERS thing shows that a slight gain in general ooomph is pretty much outdone by the extra weight and packaging issues, so who knows.

[woody2goody]

I hope they don't go down that route really. It might make interesting racing but again it's more money to develop a good system.

I think, like KERS, it might be money wasted.

[veeten]

early 60's, actually, but the whole Ferguson Formula 4wd car was another interesting idea.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/D.../fergy_car.htm

others also used it in F1.
http://www.4wdonline.com/ClassicCars/Racing.html

the idea was part of the '67-'69 turbine Indy racer.
http://www.turbinecowboy.com/carstru...hotoalbum_view

[philipbain]

Indeed, 4x4 in F1 would be going back to the 60's, except with modern electronically controlled differentials and ultralight carbon fibre drive trains its a concept that could work brilliantly. I think that this being introduced for 2010 is a pipe dream though, a shame as I'd love to see this sort of technical variety thrive in F1.

[Zico]

Indeed, 4x4 in F1 would be going back to the 60's, except with modern electronically controlled differentials and ultralight carbon fibre drive trains its a concept that could work brilliantly. I think that this being introduced for 2010 is a pipe dream though, a shame as I'd love to see this sort of technical variety thrive in F1.

I was thinking more along the lines of using the Kers motor/generators on the front wheels to produce the drive.. and with some electronic trickery you could maybe do away with the need for a front differential... this also takes us down the road of using this technology for braking where we could see in effect an electronic version of the Moog valves used by BAR iirc which reduced braking pressure to the unloaded front wheel (by having the steering operate the moog valve) An electronic version would be far more efficient/finely tuned and could take speed and cornering G's as well as throttle input parameters in a 3D map to control it, kinda like front end orientated thrust/braking vectoring.. lol ... whether the FIA would allow this potential is a different matter of course.



In 2009 the front tyres are 670mm diameter, which gives about 826 revs per mile. At 100 mph they would be rotating at 1377 rpm.

therefore, in 2010 with 80 bhp per wheel equatees to 305 ft/lb torque per wheel! At 150 mph the available torque would still be 203 ft/lb per wheel!

Of course in 2009 this is same amount of power is split between the two rear wheels. With maximum torque from the petrol engine being something around 240 ft/lb it is no wonder they shift up a gear when they hit the KERS button!

[wmcot]

Way back in the late 60's there was a Can-Am car designed with four snowmobile engines (one for each wheel.) I believe they were synchronized by use of a belt system. They tested it, but never ran it in a race. That was TRUE 4 wheel drive!

[Knock-on]

There would have to be massive development of front tyres to accomodate 4WD.

The way tyres are now, they are adequate for the task but start putting a drive load with the associated extra weight for the motor through the fronts and you will rip them to shreds.

[Jag_Warrior]

Oh, so now that the FIA has basically shot the WRC in the head, it wants to see AWD systems in Formula One.

Interesting engineering concept for a series like F1. If not for the FIA squealing about cutting costs every 15 seconds, I wouldn't be so sarcastic about this.

[Triumph]

I think it's a great idea. It should improve the gravel trap performance significantly.

They could add Town & Country tyres to the range of tyre options too.