What is currently best - WRC or IRC

[RS]

Championship standings has nothing to do with it, how much real competition did Hänninen have in the Russian round? I think he has had much more in every PWRC event this year.

Haninen only drove 2 pWRC events this year as far as I can see?

To be fair, Sweden was very good, but he looked pretty dominant in Acropolis on stage times at least.

Juho's performance in Russia was great, but don't forget he also drove IRC in Portugal and was nothing special there.

Both JWRC and PWRC seem too much about endurance though, there seem to be a lot of retirements and the gaps in JWRC especially are huge by the end of the rallies (like tens of minutes)

[Tomi]

Juho's performance in Russia was great, but don't forget he also drove IRC in Portugal and was nothing special there.

In Portugal he did drive a GrN car, I dont remember how he did against other GrN cars, but the good thing is that he can drive where he wants or when he is asked by different teams to drive, can Alen do the same, or does he have to be happy with the seat time Fiat gives him? in a phase of the carreer where seat time is the most important.

[RS]

In Portugal he did drive a GrN car, I dont remember how he did against other GrN cars, but the good thing is that he can drive where he wants or when he is asked by different teams to drive, can Alen do the same, or does he have to be happy with the seat time Fiat gives him? in a phase of the carreer where seat time is the most important.

Juho did pretty good vs. the other Grp N drivers in Portugal but he was a long way off the pace of the S2000 cars if you look at the stage times. Had he been in an S2000 there he would surely have been closer to the front, but the gaps are big enough to suggest he would not have dominated.

Anyhow, there is no doubting Haninen's talent... Regarding Alen, you have a very good point, but this is a matter of his contract with Fiat and not IRC. I thought Alen would have performed better so far this year than he has and things aren't likely to get a lot better on his next few events although they will be a great opportunity to practice his tarmac driving skills

[jparker]

N.O.T 03:43 14th Jul 08
well all the best drivers are currently in the WRC most of the drivers in IRC are second class or local heroes who never did it in the big league...

I don't buy this for a second. How many drivers are you talking about? 3?
How can you compare driving skils when the machinery is totally different. Having few guys driving cars unreachable for the rest is hardly any base for comparison.

[Wim_Impreza]

WRC and by far, better drivers, faster cars, better tv coverage too, even there was much talk about it before the challenge started.
IRC is a good series for those who dont aim to the top of the sport or never really made the top but still want to drive.

I agree.

In IRC Peugeot is too dominating and Group N cars don't have a chance for a good position. It is also horrible that they never spend one sentence about marques who are not inscribed. S2000's are for me so boring, when they come out a small corner, they haven't much accelaration and they have not much spectacle.

[bluuford]

In my mind IRC is trying to do some things better than WRC, which is marketing and they are quite successful in some areas. Many people are saying the IRC, good thing, very intense competition and etc. For me it smells like marketing story. So, usually I try to use very simple statistics to prove that there is not much difference in competition. I did it in a following way.

I took all four IRC events that have taken place in 2008 and their final overall top 10 standings.
For comparison I made some pairs with little bit similar wrc events. pairs were:
IRCTurkey-WRCTurkey2007;
IRCPortugal-WRCPortugal2007;
IRCYrpes-WRCGermany2007;
IRCRussia-WRCSardegna2008.
Next I took account the fact that WRC events are much longer and therefore I took the standings that were after about same long driving (written behind the first driver hh:min).
here are the results (Sorry about the abbreviations):
IRC standings:
Tur ------- Por ------ Belg ------ Rus
1) ros 2:25 - ros 2:57 - loi 2:45 - han 2:14
2) voi 0.23 - jan 0.46 - voi 0.59 - al 2.11
3) ale 1.27 - voi 1.38 - ros 1.27 - bas 2.44
4) ren 2.12 - bass 2.19 - cas 1.35 - loi 3.29
5) jan 2.14 - juh 2.21 - snj 1.44 - voi 5.31
6) sol 2.24 - bru 3.11 - bas 3.22 - jan 6.54
7) isik 4.47 - 7 3.51 - vand 4.44 - tira 9.03
8) loi 4.48 - aig 8.1 - brui 6.19 - sim 10.42
9) yag 10.29 - per 10.46 - liet 6.21 - x 17.07
10)kara 10.38 - lop 10.57 - aq 7.42 - xx 17.26

WRC standings:
Tur ------ Por ------ Ger ------ Sard
1) hirv 2.37 - loe 3.01 - loe 2.48 - loe 2.16
2) latv 02.9 - gro 0.40 - gro 0.38 - hirv 0.42
3) gal 05.2 - hir 1.57 - duv 0.50 - lat 0.54
4) loe 13.7 - sol 2.1 - hir 0.56 - sor 0.56
5) sol 45.4 - sor 3.59 - kop 2.49 - gal 1.15
6) sol 1.34 - lat 4.5 - gard 2.51 - atk 1.56
7) sor 1.51 - solb 6.49 - sol 3.07 - solb 3.18
8) wil 2.09 - carls 6.56 - pon 4.16 - aava 3.24
9) raut 4.01 - galli 8.12 - lat 4.54 - gard 4.12
10)vill 4.16 - stoh 11.2 - atk 8.5 - and 4.13

You can see that in most cases the competition in WRC is muc, much, much more tighter. So, nice marketing trick:-) Or do you have any better statistics?
Yes I know that there are some weak spots in my methods, but it is the best I could :-)

[Tomi]

I agree. It is also horrible that they never spend one sentence about marques who are not inscribed.

I noticed that too not a single mention about the russian guy who did drive well. (LOL, I had to re-check the results, if the guy was excluded or something).
The coverage else was quite crap too, much lousier than what we here in Finland get from the WRC.

What comes to the car makes, the idea is to build better cars than the competitor has, it has always been in rally that some cars are stronger than others, it does not change until everyone drives same cars.

[jparker]

To say one is better, you need many to compare. Claming one is the best by restrictig other competitors is like buying yourself rally fame.
Currently IRC is testig driver's skills, WRC is testing ability to cheet, to survive long stages with crap tyres, quickly changing wheels. On other hand, Citroen are testing how long Fins will suffer before giving up on the World title. It's kind of entertaining, but that's not rallying.

[Tomi]

To say one is better, you need many to compare. Claming one is the best by restrictig other competitors is like buying yourself rally fame.
Currently IRC is testig driver's skills, WRC is testing ability to cheet, to survive long stages with crap tyres, quickly changing wheels. On other hand, Citroen are testing how long Fins will suffer before giving up on the World title. It's kind of entertaining, but that's not rallying.

as usual complete bull, for once can you back up something you say, or is the wind moving your lips again.

[MikeD]

I am pretty surprised to see the current results in the poll (fun idea btw C4).

41% for WRC and 31% for IRC. It's simply beyond me that anybody prefers IRC. Watching Freddy Loix dominating a rally in IRC (Ypres) just tell the whole story about the quality of drivers in that series.

I would pick WRC anyday, anytime ... like I pick F1 and MotoGP because that is where the best in the world are. Watching second class drivers/riders is never good enough for me.