For our U.S. fans, are we not affected?

[beachbum]

If you were an insider maybe, but on the outside oval and road racing did not change.
The high priced motels miles away, is actuaally bs.
Through the eighties and later, I and fellow cohorts, attended races the same way we always had, pitch a tent or find the cheapest closet motel possible, and we WERE NOT RARE. WE were in the crowd that kept comig come hell or high water.

NOW maybe it is the gear-heads, car compentent crowd like us, that US oval and road racing has crapped on.
I quit going because spec. or quasi-spec. racing is a farce. Others merely switched to drag racing where knowledge of mechanical points can still be increased by being there.

Fuel crisis was a farce in the seventies and exists now because most voters are dumb as s--t.

Hilarious

I spent way too many nights at various events sleeping in vans or tents with no hot water and hungry bugs to want to do it anymore. There is nothing quite like sitting in a van just above freezing in a torrential downpour, catching water from a leaking roof in a dirty frying pan, sharing the space with a half dozen of your "closest" friends who haven't had a bath in a couple days, and a portable toilet that is a "bit" full. Been there, done that. At one event camping wasn't allowed, to we stuffed 14 people (male and female) into a tiny $8 a night room with 2 twin beds. I really felt for the guy that got the bathtub, but I had the 8 bucks, so my wife and I got a bed, such as it was. Ah, the good old days.

If that's your thing, great. But a lot of people look for a "campground" with AC and heat, cable TV, restaurant, and real flush toilets. I have been at many tracks were the closest motels were 10 miles or more away and cost an arm, leg, and first born because they were the only game around. For many of us, the choice is watch on tv, dig deep into the pocket, or spend a few days living like a survivalist.

As for the fuel crisis of the 70's, if you lived it, the causes weren't as important as the effects. Odd / even days, no gas at all, and limited purchases. Trips were planned around the dates, and often you would leave on a day where you could get gas, sit in line at almost every station along the way getting whatever you could to keep topped off, then come back in the dead of night just because you had to wait until after midnight to get to "your day". I assure you, at 3:00 am, there aren't many stations open and you stopped at almost every one, hoping for a few gallons. People coped, but all entertainment events suffered greatly, and it wasn't fun.

IMHO, racing is a competition between people who happen to do it with machines, not some technical exercise. Technology is nice (ah, the old Can-Am) but without competition, it is just a fancy parade where the team with the best tool wins, not the people who make the best of the tools they are given. F1 comes to mind - great cars, dull racing.

So please leave the sarcasm somewhere else.

[Chris R]

The price of fuel is not so much an economic issues as it is a psychological issue. My household drives a total of, at most, 30,000 miles a year at an average of 23 mpg or so - that is 1300 gallons of gas. So while I am paying more for gas - it is not going to bankrupt me. However, the cost is now at a point that the use of gasoline factors into decisions we make. We are changing our behavior to minimize our miles on the road. However, if we really want to do something, it is a non-issue. It is the gray areas that the price of gas makes a difference - the gas alone wouldn't make someone change their habits - but it might be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back....

That being said, I cannot see how the cost of energy is not going to negatively affect racing. Racing is not an "easy" hobby to take part in as a participant or fan - it falls into a "gray area" that I mentioned above for many people. So given so much competition for the entertainment $$ I would think it will suffer due to the cost of energy.....

[Bob Riebe]

Hilarious


IMHO, racing is a competition between people who happen to do it with machines, not some technical exercise.
So please leave the sarcasm somewhere else.

Sorry I an not a hero worshipping, ala NASCAR type.
Drivers come and go, the cars are the stars.

Sarcasm, hardly but if you want me to I am quite good at it.
Bob
PS--I went throught "gas crisis" and had none of the problems you had; yous was justin ins the wrongs places.

[!!WALDO!!]

It will be interesting to see your report. I'll be at a couple of SCCA events in the next few weeks and I know that the pre entries are way down from where they should be. So it looks like the folks racing on their own nickle are cutting back.

I have been getting reports of car counts down all over at short tracks also.

When that happens a lot less fans. A couple are quietly saying they may shut down and reopen with some specials in the late Summer, early Fall.

[beachbum]

The price of fuel is not so much an economic issues as it is a psychological issue. My household drives a total of, at most, 30,000 miles a year at an average of 23 mpg or so - that is 1300 gallons of gas. So while I am paying more for gas - it is not going to bankrupt me. However, the cost is now at a point that the use of gasoline factors into decisions we make. We are changing our behavior to minimize our miles on the road. However, if we really want to do something, it is a non-issue. It is the gray areas that the price of gas makes a difference - the gas alone wouldn't make someone change their habits - but it might be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back....

That being said, I cannot see how the cost of energy is not going to negatively affect racing. Racing is not an "easy" hobby to take part in as a participant or fan - it falls into a "gray area" that I mentioned above for many people. So given so much competition for the entertainment $$ I would think it will suffer due to the cost of energy.....

You are correct. If you are driving a 23 MPG car, the hit is more psychological. But if you have an RV getting 6-8 MPG on gas or 10-12 on Diesel, that couple hundred mile round trip to a race can hurt.

But Waldo brings up another aspect. The race teams often travel a lot further than the fans. When I was with a team, it wasn't uncommon to drive 1000 miles one-way. Our tow vehicle got a whooping 5 MPG at best. So, 400 gallons at $4 gal - big hit for an amateur team.

[beachbum]

Sorry I an not a hero worshipping, ala NASCAR type.
Drivers come and go, the cars are the stars.

"People" is an all encompassing term. I worked on race teams, and the difference between winners and losers were often the people, and often people no one sees, like mechanics, tuners, the guy back in the dyno room, even the team manager. The challenge for the teams was to do a better job that the next group, not outspend them to get the latest "trick" whatever. Teams with the best people often beat teams with better equipment. Race cars come and go and obsolete cars are often considered just junk by a race team. They are just tools to do a job. The throttle jockey was also often thought of as just another piece of equipment that could be replaced with a better model if needed.

I like high tech. If I didn't, I wouldn't have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and work as a software designer. I like neat little wiggets, and marvel at the high tech precision in a series like F1, but watching a dull race with neat equipment is still dull.

Sarcasm, hardly but if you want me to I am quite good at it.
Bob

Obviously

PS--I went throught "gas crisis" and had none of the problems you had; yous was justin ins the wrongs places.

Don't know where you were, but the whole east coast suffered. Frankly I don't know of any area in the country that didn't. Some rural areas weren't hit as bad as their usage wasn't very high, but it wasn't uncommon to see closed - no gas signs on stations.

Of course there is the old saying "if you remember the 70's you weren't there". A lot of brain cells died in that era.

[pits4me]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25607845

Food for thought.

I have been getting reports of car counts down all over at short tracks also.

When that happens a lot less fans. A couple are quietly saying they may shut down and reopen with some specials in the late Summer, early Fall.

Attendance isn't the only thing taking a hit right now Waldo. The concessions folks are getting hammered. Merchandise sales are way off. The changes in sponsor-driver-team affiliations are shortchanging licensees, their distribution and sales channels. I spoke with the Motorsports Authentics folks recently. With money tight, risk for bespoke design is very high. That results in lower volume production runs coupled with higher transportation costs from China, Korea, Vietnam and India. Then there's the aggregate licensing mess that makes many items on the fringe of affordable. To try to keep the cost down they compromise on material and overal quality. Not good for the supporters and fans.

Its not that easy to change 1,500 Dale Jr die cast cars from the Bud #8 to ????. Imagine what Home Depot is thinking with Tony Stewart jumping ship in 2009. There's a crap load of Home Depot #20 brandware and brandwear still in the pipeline and it's not selling like it did in 2007.

The writing is on the wall. I hope ICS is watching closely.

[Miatanut]

Anyone read the title of the post?

"For our U.S. fans, are we not affected?"

I don't thing Waldo was asking about Europe, or why fans spend as much as they do to see the F1 "circus", but how the high fuel prices and weak economy will impact racing in the US.

My point was, in a place where gas costs more than 50% more than in the US, we just saw a packed house. If the show is great, people will make it a priority. If the show is not so hot, they've got other things to do.

Do I think it will effect American open wheel? Absolutely! Would it if American open wheel was putting on a compelling show? Not so much.

And, yes, Bernie is laughing all the way to the bank.

[!!WALDO!!]

My point was, in a place where gas costs more than 50% more than in the US, we just saw a packed house. If the show is great, people will make it a priority. If the show is not so hot, they've got other things to do.

Do I think it will effect American open wheel? Absolutely! Would it if American open wheel was putting on a compelling show? Not so much.

And, yes, Bernie is laughing all the way to the bank.

The Chicagoland NASCAR races, yes both had what Silverstone had for two days and made what Silverstone paid Bernie.

Bernie maybe laughing to the Bank but the people putting up the Money are not. They are actually more important than Bernie because they can walk away.

[NickFalzone]

A few things to note in this conversation:

NASCAR race attendance is down
NASCAR merchandise is down
NASCAR tv ratings are up

IndyCar race attendance is up
IndyCar merchandise (supposedly) is up 70%
IndyCar ratings are up

Not really suggesting anything with these notes, other than the fact that the sky is not falling. The only area that I see a real weakness is sponsorships. In NASCAR especially, this now a significant issue. Seems to be less so in IndyCar. Not sure about team sponsors, but of course the league seems to be adding new minor sponsors every few weeks.