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15th July 2008, 21:49 #31Originally Posted by !!WALDO!!Originally Posted by garyshellOriginally Posted by !!WALDO!!
Yep, I guess you did. Does the underlining help at all??? And we'll just let your delusion that your little chats with the fans in some way constitutes any sort of scientific survey just slide right on by.
Gary"If you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem." --- George Carlin :andrea: R.I.P.
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15th July 2008, 21:58 #32Originally Posted by !!WALDO!!
Did YOU ever conduct a REAL survey to back up your ridiculous assertion as fact that 9 out of 10 fans knew or didn't know something?
Gary"If you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem." --- George Carlin :andrea: R.I.P.
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15th July 2008, 21:59 #33
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Originally Posted by !!WALDO!!
There is no doubt Indy was the BIG draw - but I knew more than a few people who knew who they were in general - now granted they were "indycar" drivers - but there was still an awareness of races beyond Indy - at least in the very un-racing circle of people I knew.... for example- more than a few people thought it was cool the same cars that ran at Indy on the streets of Long Beach...... since I was a teenager there were more than a few people who talked about how cool it would be to race through the streets of philadelphia... when the race came to the meadowlands in 1984 there was buzz even in south jersey....
I am not questioning the role of the Indy 500 as the pinnacle of the sport and the pinnacle by a wide margin - but i think the rest of the series was much healthier in its hey-day than it is given credit for now in the wake of the going public/CCWS fiasco.... If nothing else, the rest of the series bought the drivers of the Indy 500 closer to the masses - it was a very synergistic relationship and the entire sport grew....
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15th July 2008, 22:00 #34
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Originally Posted by garyshell
have never seen---Not viewed or haven't seen
a car---- Since we are talking about OPEN WHEEL racing and the things driven in Open Wheel racing are cars one must expect a person to use logic.
in a driveway or on the highway.--- Places were today's consumers see car that they drive.
Would this help? They have never seen a Dallara/G-Force/Lola/Reynard/Swift/March/Penske in a driveway or on the highway.
Nitpicking or not following along.
Notice I rarely post to you because I do not want to have anything to do with you. Sorry this is why.
C. Waldo Taylor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfz2XDXaeqc
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15th July 2008, 22:12 #35
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Originally Posted by Chris R
The ARS Series over the CART B was a fatal mistake. The concept of bring drivers, car owners and mechanics into the CART family was flawed because it cost 40% of a CART budget for 20% of the money. Once again it broke those wanting to play.
CART from 1979 on left miles and miles of bones of the people that took from and left beside the road. What broke them was the history as nobody wanted to play with them as they could not be trusted.
Sport grew? In 1995 a TNN Rockingham race had a higher rating than the first 3 CART races. Nobody had the The Nashville Network. When it came out Adam Saal said it was just a clitch and meant nothing. That year, NASCAR out did CART and CART was on ABC and NASCAR was on 6 networks. Only Indy was a winner.
No we can look back with Rose Colored glasses at the thought of what once was but us in the trenches and in the stands and in some cases behind the scenes saw the real stuff. It wasn't something that rose colored glasses could correct.C. Waldo Taylor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfz2XDXaeqc
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15th July 2008, 22:37 #36
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I cannot speak to the entire business model of CART and I know the Meadowlands was a bust - but I can speak to the fan interest in the diverse offerings of CART - at least for a time....
Generally speaking, I agree with your point on all of this - I just tend to think that AOWR has survived since the 1920's (the dawn of the automotive age) in spite of itself not because of any great vision, leadership or virtue. I think CART was a continuation of that tradition and that while it may have had different movers and shakers , it was not all that different from the past and it does not appear as though the IRL has done significantly better job - it is just at a different point of the success/failure arc right now.
I would say the lone example of prolonged success in AOWR has been Tony Hulman/IMS from 1946-1977 - but obviously upon his passing the respect he commanded did not pass to his successors and here we are today.....
I think it is fair to argue that the Indy 500,CART, and AOWR peaked together somewhere around ( I am picking a fairly random date - move it either way 3 years) 1985. The spin and win was spectacular and a "made for media" event. The cars were fast and pretty. There were still remnants of some diversity(albeit fleeting by 1985). The names were familiar. The world was not yet over- saturated by cable TV and the internet and extreme sports. In that year they were still pretty big fish in the sports entertainment pond. Since then the "pond" has been growing much faster than the AOWR fish and the pond is very crowded with other fish roughly the same size or larger.
Anyway, it seems like everyone wants to take side between Indy vs. CART vs. USAC vs. IRL - as far as I am concerned they have all been managed very poorly with few exceptions......
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15th July 2008, 23:55 #37
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Originally Posted by Chris R
Once the Car owners set the rules the game was up. Waldo's number one rule is: It is the job of all car owners to eliminate competition. With that we turn over the rules to the people wanting to eliminate competition. Flawed from the start.
Originally Posted by Chris R
Originally Posted by Chris R
Originally Posted by Chris R
See there has been many great experiments tried over the years and all of them haven't worked in the long run. In my day, there were many car owners concerned with the direction of CART and they all left. You win with ADDITION and LOSE with Subtraction.
Oh well, such is life.C. Waldo Taylor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfz2XDXaeqc
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16th July 2008, 00:00 #38
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Originally Posted by garyshell
Done yammmering with you for good. Thank you and good bye.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...d.php?t=125602
English for you....C. Waldo Taylor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfz2XDXaeqc
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16th July 2008, 02:27 #39Originally Posted by garyshellOriginally Posted by !!WALDO!!
Gary"If you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem." --- George Carlin :andrea: R.I.P.
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16th July 2008, 04:14 #40
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Originally Posted by Starter
Mercedes against Ford against Honda against Toyota at the peak, with Reynard against Lola against Penske against Eagle (and Swift? don't remember if Penske, Eagle and Swift all ran at the same time), and Goodyear against Firestone (or was it Bridgestone?).
Most any automotive, beer (and tobacco), and many household products plastered on the cars at the same time.
Pre-qualifying at several of the races (half of them, one year, really!), with teams going home because they didn't make the show at a race other than Indy.
The good old days, sniff!
He needs to handle such things. Itīs a long rally, and he should apply that in his thoughts.
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