Vettel vs. Bourdais

[tintop]

Yes, Montoya has won 7 times and was undeniably quick, but he was expected to be a Schumacher-beater, when he joined F1. Didn't happen.

So a series is crap if it can't generate a racer that can take away a championship from the racer/team with the most wins in F1 history.

You are exaggerating my claims. I don't mean F3000 was a "crappy" series, but you can't deny GP2 is a stronger feeder series. When talking about F3000's low tide, I mainly mean the very last years, when also the amount of teams and drivers was reducing. At highpoint around the year of 2000 and earlier there were more entries than positions on the starting grid. Back then it was a strong and attractive series.

You keep changing your story. Bourdais wins F3000 in the era of Alonso Webber + Heidfeld (within 3 years). You counter by saying that the 3 year old GP2 series is stronger - maybe it will be maybe it won't, what's the point? It didn't exist when the racer in question was racing.

[jens]

Alas we are going offtopic and need to turn back on the road. The main issues here actually aren't about Montoya or F3000 (btw, I don't measure the strength of this series by Bourdais if you thought this), but about IndyCar or more specifically - how seriously will F1 team principals consider IndyCar drivers in their future line-ups? So a direct question - how many drivers by percentage of all F1 rookies do you expect to come from IndyCar to F1 in the future?

So a series is crap if it can't generate a racer that can take away a championship from the racer/team with the most wins in F1 history.

I don't understand, what are you trying to say with this sentence?
I think back then CART had a stronger reputation than it has now. And when we are talking about current situation, then this is IMO quite obvious that F1 teams consider GP2 drivers + their own development programme drivers more seriously in their future line-ups. You disagree?

[jens]

Alas we are going offtopic and need to turn back on the road. The main issues here actually aren't about Montoya or F3000 (btw, I don't measure the strength of this series by Bourdais if you thought this), but about IndyCar or more specifically - how seriously will F1 team principals consider IndyCar drivers in their future line-ups? So a direct question - how many drivers by percentage of all F1 rookies do you expect to come from IndyCar to F1 in the future?

[gloomyDAY]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Vettel is a Prime Gimp for Torro Rosso. For example, Berger is always in full praise or making lame excuses for his fellow Countryman since he's Austrian himself. Plus, isn't Red Bull (The Drink) owned by an Austrian as well?

Plus, there's never a harsh word or negative connotation relating to any of his performances (A stark contrast from the Liuzzi/Speed fiasco a year ago). Overall, Vettel is now being lubed up as a head Grimp for Red Bull F1 so his ascension doesn't surprise me. Coulthard needed to be dumped anyway.

So I take it that your response is a vehement "yes" to my question. Thank you!

Also, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that Austria is not the same as Germany. Your claim that Berger (Austrian) loves Vettel (German) because of being "fellow countrymen" is laughable.

Last year happened last year. What is it with you and being stuck in time? Scott is happy at ARCA and Liuzzi is kicking off his shoes over at Force India. We're talking about this season and which of the two STR drivers will have a better outcome at the end.

I don't think your insults are convincing anyone that Vettel is any less deserving driver than Bourdais. All you have done is make yourself look foolish by throwing insults and then claiming that it's a good thing Vettel is replacing Coulthard after denegrating the German.

[tintop]

I don't understand, what are you trying to say with this sentence?
I think back then CART had a stronger reputation than it has now. And when we are talking about current situation, then this is IMO quite obvious that F1 teams consider GP2 drivers + their own development programme drivers more seriously in their future line-ups. You disagree?

It's pretty simple, you made a curious statement regarding ex champ car racer Montoya not being that good in F1 – despite his 30 podiums and 7 wins. Why? Because he didn't beat MS! This in turn was used to bolster your equally ridiculous proposition that North America can no longer be a source of F1 racers. - kind of like all of all of your other similarly well thought out arguments that originate from the premise that Bourdais isn't any good because Vettel has reached maturity over the last 3 races and bested him and therefore nobody will ever come from a NA series to F1 again (unless they are a legacy like Marco). Nice theses, done chasing the obfuscation - you seem to revel in it.

[jens]

It can't be said as strictly as nobody will ever come from North America, but their chances are not as good as for example the chances of GP2 drivers. You disagree? Give a proper answer.

The drivers, who have come from CART/Champ Car, did generally have a higher reputation before their F1 career than they have had after their F1 career. You disagree?

What are you trying to prove? That IndyCar drivers have a great chance of getting into F1? And you still haven't answered to my questions regarding for example which drivers from current IndyCar series may we expect to see in F1 in the future.

[ioan]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Vettel is a Prime Gimp for Torro Rosso. For example, Berger is always in full praise or making lame excuses for his fellow Countryman since he's Austrian himself. Plus, isn't Red Bull (The Drink) owned by an Austrian as well?

Vettel is not Austrian, but I'm not surprised by the bollocks you write as you clearly have little knowledge about F1 and your posts are proof to that.

[F1boat]

It can't be said as strictly as nobody will ever come from North America, but their chances are not as good as for example the chances of GP2 drivers.

Yes, but the Indy Car is not meant to be a feeder series like the Grand Prix 2. It is similar and yet different form of motorsport.

[tintop]

Yes, but the Indy Car is not meant to be a feeder series like the Grand Prix 2. It is similar and yet different form of motorsport.

Yes true, but reality has no place in an arguement the likes of this

[aryan]

I rate Bourdais much higher.

Based on the team's comments, I get the feeling that they are revolving aroud Vettel and that the Bourdais choice was somehow forced upon them.

It never bodes well for a driver to feel alien in a team, and that is exactly how I believe Bourdais is feeling.