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  1. #1
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    Driving style evolution

    I haven't posted a question for a few weeks now, so I figuered it's about time I toss another one into the fray...

    Loeb is always heralded as the driver who changed the way WRC's are driven (being neat instead of scandinavian flicking and opposite locking) these days. I often read about it being attributed to the active differentials (now only central but formally the transverse ones as well) but I'd like to understand fully.
    Is the active differentials' ability to 'kill" understeer on corner entry what made this change in style possible or am I completely off here and it's something I never even thought of?
    באמת הלכת לגוגל לתרגם את זה? פראייר

  2. #2
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    Hey Rani

    I personally would say that it was Gronholm who was the first to bring the new style of driving into the WRC with the 206. He was more sideways than Loeb, but he was the first to put the emphasis on neat driving above all else. I think the change started in 1999/2000 with the pug and also with the focus (although less successfully).

    As for the active diffs; I don't think that the change of style is all up to them (although they are a component), I think its more that the cars got to such a refined stage with their development in ALL areas of handling such as the weight distribution, tyres etc. that flicking and sideways driving were not as necessary to make the car do what the driver wanted. These advances also made the cars only seriously fast when driven in one style (which happens to be Loeb's natural style) - as straight as possible. Also the Citroens have always suited him incredibly well in this way and they have been really difficult for many other drivers to get the most out of. I don't think that anyone believes that Colin, and to a lesser extent Carlos, were as slow against Loeb as the Xsara made them look. They just had to drive the thing in an unnatural style as they had been driving cars very sideways for their entire careers.

    To sum up, I think that the change in style wasn't all up to the active diffs but they certainly were a part of the whole package that changed the driving style of today.

  3. #3
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    I think Walter Rhorl was the first driver to go fast using another style than the scandinavian.

  4. #4
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    For sure there has always been different driving styles in rallying and that is one of the fascinations. There has been different eras but it has always been so that on the top there been drivers of different driving schools.

    Today the two fastest guys have the most opposite driving styles of the top ten drivers, Loeb is very clean and front end first, Latvala is more sideways than anyone on top since McRae.

    In my opinion Tommi Mäkinen was the first to make the cleaner style like art. He talked about it much and has clear followers, most obviously Petter Solberg, for example. Because of that, I consider him as the inventor of the "new style". His difference to Loeb was that he threw the car sideways in the corner but left it very much front end first, which was brilliant and intelligent driving, very much based on theories of Rauno Aaltonen for example (European champion of the sixties)..

    In Mäkinen's era McRae was purely measured with raw speed almost as fast as Mäkinen, but drove exactly the opposite way. Amazing, isn't it.

    The same goes with Airikkala, Vatanen and Alén vs. Blomqvist, Lampinen, Biasion, Röhrl, Hämäläinen of the sixties-seventies-eighties.

    And despite technology is evalving every year, the laws of physics are not to be won. Whatever happens technology-wise the fact is that the earlier the driver is able to point the driving wheels and power towards the opening straight the faster he/she is.

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    Even in only the past 5 years or so the tidier drivers have become more and more successful.
    Petter's style in 2003 is now out-of-date and not as effective, and it is no coincidence that Hirvonen and Loeb are top 2 now as they have the most consistent and neat style. Even though Latvala and even Sordo are arguably faster or as fast as these two, they dont do as well.
    Dont partciularly know why this is - all I know is I prefer the sideways driving of McRae and the like, and that is why Petter's my man, and JML my second man!

  6. #6
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    i have the theory about driving sideways or neatly - it depends on what type of car did driver learn to go fast in his youth. as some 20 years ago most rallycars were rwd, it also required more use of oversteer, and it came along when drivers started use 4wd cars. current generation guys have used more fwd cars and thus throw back-end much less than ones who drove rwd cars in youth. of-course, this is not absolute thruth. for example Markko Märtin was also very neat driver (comparing to Rovanpera for example, who used much more tires) and though he entered rally world in Lada 2108 (fwd), he has credited many times Estonian Rally champ Ivar Raidam as his mentor and one from who he learned his clean driving style, but Raidam (though he was extremely clean driver) drove rwd Ladas before 4wd mitsus, so this theory of first cars doesnt hold in this case...
    :)

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    A good driver should be able to drive any car fast in any style necessary. Rorhl for instance started off his career with very sideways driving (Ford Capri) and with Opel also. When he first drove the Fiat 131, it turned out to be more nimble than the Opel and had less lock on the steering. That's when he developed his clean driving style which he carried through untill he drove the Audi. Here he again needed to change his driving style although he still drove it nose first. Later with the Brutal Audi Sport and E2, he needed to resort to more agressive driving style again, especially at "slower" corners just to get that nose-heavy, engine-too-much-up-front car to turn in somewhat properly.

    I'll say this however, that nose-in-first is a more treacherous driving style, and therefore might take more getting used to, as a certain degree of safety margin is reduced. So in that way it might be more difficult to adapt to a "clean" drivingstyle.
    Rest in peace Richard

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nenukknak

    I'll say this however, that nose-in-first is a more treacherous driving style, and therefore might take more getting used to, as a certain degree of safety margin is reduced. So in that way it might be more difficult to adapt to a "clean" drivingstyle.

    Ah, that oft ignored reality, driving the boring way is harder, not often acknowledged around here :-)
    Deep down I'm a sound bloke!

  9. #9
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    Remeber it also depends on the car's behavior and how you can manage to drive it. Gronhölm didn't drive the same style in the Corolla, the 206, the 307 or even the Focus. The driver has to adapt at some point to get speed from the car. Märtin had this problem with the 307 at begins of the 2005 until he changed some suspension parts for Finland and did superb, being fast and also feeling confortable at speed.

    Also, late Colin didn't manage to adapt to the Xsara in 2003, and couldn't drive as fast as Sèb or Carlos that year.

  10. #10
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    Sorry I can't offer the link but I read it from somewhere that the new tyre rule has brought some problems to Ford as the tyres weight more than previous ones. Hence the weight balance is now wrong and the rear weights more than it should. That has caused some problems to Latvala and Hirvonen. That could explain the oversteering.
    Another Flying Finn

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