As Riccardo will be relegated to 2nd place all-time . . .

[keysersoze]

I'd like to start a thread about one of my all-time favorite drivers. Please post thoughts on his career, racing moments, a time you met him or saw him race live, other drivers' comments about him, and the like.

I'd like to start a thread about one of my all-time favorite drivers. Please post thoughts on his career, racing moments, a time you met him or saw him race live, other drivers' comments about him, and the like.

I think ArrowsFA1 is the man you need to talk to.

[codalunga]

I'd like to start a thread about one of my all-time favorite drivers. Please post thoughts on his career, racing moments, a time you met him or saw him race live, other drivers' comments about him, and the like.

Monaco 1982 where he won his first race is one of the strangest F1 races I've ever seen.

[Valve Bounce]

Are we talking about Ricky Ricardo?

[ArrowsFA1]

What a fine idea for a thread keysersoze

First of all, congratulations to Rubens for reaching such a milestone. Apparently, in the absence of any "official" confirmation he has decided he will break Riccardo's record in Turkey, so this weekend's race will see him match it.

It may just be a number, but to race in 256 GP's is still a remarkable achievement. Riccardo takes particular pride in his record because it shows that the work he did in F1 was valued by the teams he raced for. If he hadn't made such contributions to the likes of Brabham, Williams and Benetton he would not have been an F1 driver for as long as he was.

Benetton is quite a good example in many ways. Although his final year in F1 is often seen by some as a poor one Steve Matchett has written of how valuable Riccardo's experience and knowledge was, and how much time this saved the team in the development of the car. That's the kind of unnoticed contribution Riccardo made during his career.

Finest moments? Perhaps the 1990 San Marino GP victory, mainly because of what it meant to Riccardo particularly after what happened at the 1983 GP. Also Mexico in 1991 was a superb drive. Ill all weekend, he put the Williams on pole - can you imagine Mansell saying "‘I think my pole was because of the perfection of the car. Yesterday I was carried by the car because I didn’t feel so well, the car did the work" - and won. Or how about that pole position at Estoril in 1991. Superb For Riccardo his karting world title, and victories in Macau, rank up there with his achievements throughout his career.

A thoroughly good bloke is Riccardo, and a damn fine racing driver.

[wedge]

Top driver, perhaps the epitome of a #2 driver.

After Mansell set a record lap during qualy for the 1992 British GP, he congratulated Mansell by grabbing Mansell's groin to confirm he had huge balls!

[keysersoze]

1989 was Riccardo's return to the sharp end of the grid, and I was over the moon to see him share the front row with Senna at Rio. He later had excellent races at both Canada (teammate Thierry Boutsen won when Patrese's undertray worked itself loose in the rain) and Hungary (on pole, and led for 50+ laps) but he was denied victory in both.

Considering his near-misses, the thoroughly-deserved Imola win in '90 was a special moment, and even our lousy San Antonio paper had a write up about it.

[ArrowsFA1]

Top driver, perhaps the epitome of a #2 driver.

I think this view of Riccardo largely comes from two years in his long career - 1983 at Brabham and 1992 at Williams. Given that his team-mates went on to win the WDC in both years that's not too surprising, but I don't think Riccardo should be seen as a #2 in the same way as Rubens was for 6 years at Ferrari.

He wasn't signed as a #2 to Piquet for 1982, and headed his team-mate in the WDC standings throughout the year. At the point when the team decided to concentrate on their BMW engined car Riccardo was ahead of Rosberg in the standings, and Gordon Murray has said the team didn't appreciate how strong the Cosworth-powered BT49 was in comparison with the opposition. The following year poor BMW reliability (he was often running development parts, unlike Piquet) put paid to any meaningful results

As for Williams, Riccardo was well established in the team by 1991, and had contributed a great deal to the development of the car, but he wasn't seen as a "star", whereas Mansell was, so Mansell was signed very much on his terms to win the world title for Renault. Things didn't go quite to plan in the beginning as Riccardo outqualified the "star" in the first 7 races of the year, but after winning in France Nigel imposed himself on the team.

In pre-season testing for 1992 Riccardo said of 1991 "You could see, especially at the beginning of the season, that if the material I had was exactly the same l could win races." Things were not exactly the same in 1992, not because of anything the team did, but because, as Adrian Newey said, "Nigel quickly realised we had a very good car, and that his most likely rival for the title was going to be Riccardo. So he set about systematically demoralising him." One means of doing this was to mislead his team-mate during debriefs; the other was the simple fact that the 'computer controlled' FW14B suited Mansell's style far more than it did Riccardo's.

He wasn't signed as a #2 to Piquet for 1982, and headed his team-mate in the WDC standings throughout the year.

Well, yes, but Nelson did have the BMW engined BT50 for all but one race, which had a great talent for self-detonation in it's formative season, whereas Ricardo was put back into the uber-reliable Cosworth powered BT49 until the French GP.

(I might be slightly out on the specific races)

That's not to say that Patrese was a bonafide Number 2, just that reading anything into the 1982 Brabham season based on championship positions is misleading.

[wedge]

He wasn't signed as a #2 to Piquet for 1982, and headed his team-mate in the WDC standings throughout the year. At the point when the team decided to concentrate on their BMW engined car Riccardo was ahead of Rosberg in the standings, and Gordon Murray has said the team didn't appreciate how strong the Cosworth-powered BT49 was in comparison with the opposition. The following year poor BMW reliability (he was often running development parts, unlike Piquet) put paid to any meaningful results

What I meant when I say a good #2 driver is someone who can win a number of races but not necessarily WDC material - as in the same case as Berger, Barrichello, Coulthard, Massa.

Would you seriously put Patrese as WDC material?