Gasoline???

[ZzZzZz]

I read a Wall Street Journal article (Feb. 1 '07) that talks about the limitation on corn-based ethanol is our transportation system. It's produced in the Mid-west, but the customers are mostly on the coasts. The only way to transport it is by rail and the railways are maxxed out. So, despite subsidies, tax breaks and tariffs, foreign shipped in sugar cane based ethanol is competitive and already makes for a significant percentage of what we use. What's implied is any increased usage will be largely imported. Countries worldwide are jumping in to ethanol production.

[Easy Drifter]

A must read on Ethanol and ecomomics is today's column in the Toronto Sun by Greg Weston. You can get to it through either the Toronto Sun or Canoe.

[grungex]

http://ottsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnis...42091-sun.html

[ZzZzZz]

A must read on Ethanol and ecomomics is today's column in the Toronto Sun by Greg Weston. You can get to it through either the Toronto Sun or Canoe.

"Ethanol, of course, is just alcohol distilled from corn and grain..."

Reads like a high school paper. Starts with an inaccurate premise, recites an incomplete picture. Doesn't once mention other sources of ethanol. Seems like the main point of the article is that if Canada doesn't step it up, they'll be buying corn-based ethanol from the U.S. (instead of much cheaper sugar-based ethanol from China, Brazil, etc. - remember: no tariff.) So, sounds like the reporter's primary source was a lobbyist. American-style journalism.

[indycool]

I sorta read it that way, too, Zs. Now that the idea of ethanol is gaining steam, the oil industry is trying to hang it out to dry and others are trying to get in on the big new deal. Huge money will probably screw up a good thing in the end, but it'll certainly be controversial.

I remember reading a news release from the ethanol industry after a test which showed it took less energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than it did to produce a gallon of gasoline. That information seems relatively inconvenient for some to grasp.

There's something like more than 50 ethanol plants in various stages of planning or building in Indiana alone. At present, though, ethanol is only 4 percent of the nation's fuel supply but clearly it's about to take off.

I hope I live to see the day when the U.S. can tell the Middle East and the President of Venezuela to go drink their ******* oil.

[Okeefe]

In my opinion, of major concern regarding ethanol production is the amount of water required.

[Bob Riebe]

[quote="indycool"]
I remember reading a news release from the ethanol industry after a test which showed it took less energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than it did to produce a gallon of gasoline. That information seems relatively inconvenient for some to grasp.
QUOTE]
If some one actually said that, he is a fool or a damned liar,but then I saw the source.

If what he said was true, alcohol could be used to power the plant, but it cannot because it does not contain enough energy.

To make it real simple, engergy used includes everythng necessary to produce the product the get-go.

With oil it means starting with pumping it out of the ground and going from underground to finished product.

With alcohol it means starting with the seed and going from there.

Bob

[Okeefe]

With global warming, that shouldn't be an issue.

If only it were that easy - unfortunately, it is my understanding that its production is still very much a serious issue in terms of effect on surrounding local water tables. Thankfully, in my surrounding locale we were able to argue against a plant for its production relying heavily on the water tables' prognoses.

It's ironic to think that water will someday be more valuable than any type of fuel - but I do think that day will come.

[luvracin]

It's ironic to think that water will someday be more valuable than any type of fuel - but I do think that day will come.

It's closer than you think. Go visit Australia.

Compared to the blatant water waste here in Michigan(surrounded on 3 sides by the Great Lakes), my parents back in Aus struggle with timed showers, thinking about replumbing the house to recycle/filter dishwasher/washing mashine water, looking at fitting rainwater tanks, etc, etc....

[Okeefe]

http://www.physorg.com/news69943123.html

Yes, I fear that day will come sooner than later.
I hope the above link works. Unfortunately, the full story expired 15 days after its run, but notice also the comment down at the bottom also where it is predicted that there will be eventually 50 miles of desert surrounding production plants. Granted, that is just an opinion of a person -- but at least people are paying attention to water and voicing opinions now.

There must be a way of searching archives to obtain the full story, but I'm out of time here today. Good day to all!