Is it time change? If so, what change?

[tannat]

I've been following sportscar racing since the early 80's, and researched it another 10 years prior to that. Stepping back from it all from the past 35 some odd years shows a distinct rise and fall, in a 10-12 year cycle..

early 70's -early 80's Group 4/5/6
early 80's-early/mid 90's Group B/C
mid 90's-present LMP/GT (with some mods along the way)

Has the current formula lived long enough? Is it time for change? The interest is certainly still there, at least from a Le Mans perspective (more entries than grid spots year after year). FIA GT is stable, and the LMES looked good in 2006 as well. ALMS is facing 2007 grids in the low 20's (or less, perhaps), but the quality is strong...

What's your thoughts? Propose a new structure if you have ideas....

[viper_man]

I honestly think we should have stuck with the early 90s class identification, ie GT2, GT1, and Le Mans Prototypes. Perhaps the prototype class would have to be split into LMP1 and LMP2 classes, but aside from that, that classification did me fine.

Although with the progressions in cars we are seeing now, we would probably have to end up with about 6 different classes., although Im not sure how it would work

[RS Spyder]

I've just had a marathon session on another forum concerning the ACO's alterations to the rules for 2007.
As far as I am concerned, this new contrived racing (not allowing the smaller prototype classes to even try for overall wins) is mind boggling.(at least to mine)
If you limit classes from competing against eachother, then you cannot have overall winners. "Overall" implies winning against all. If you are limited to competeing in your class, then the best you can acheive is a Class win. Even if you are in the top class! If , in theory, you are not really competing with any other class, then you cant be an "overall" winner.
I have no problem with a split in the Prototype classes, as long as they only reflect different philosophies (ie. big engined, heavier cars in one class and smaller engined, lighter cars in another) to obtaining the same goal; an Overall win!!
I was stunned to discover that most peolple on the other forum thought this to be outrageous!
If I outrage anyone on this forum, please accept my apologies in anticipation.

[1LM1]

I've just had a marathon session on another forum concerning the ACO's alterations to the rules for 2007.
As far as I am concerned, this new contrived racing (not allowing the smaller prototype classes to even try for overall wins) is mind boggling.(at least to mine)
If you limit classes from competing against eachother, then you cannot have overall winners. "Overall" implies winning against all. If you are limited to competeing in your class, then the best you can acheive is a Class win. Even if you are in the top class! If , in theory, you are not really competing with any other class, then you cant be an "overall" winner.
I have no problem with a split in the Prototype classes, as long as they only reflect different philosophies (ie. big engined, heavier cars in one class and smaller engined, lighter cars in another) to obtaining the same goal; an Overall win!!
I was stunned to discover that most peolple on the other forum thought this to be outrageous!
If I outrage anyone on this forum, please accept my apologies in anticipation.

But the ACO does want the LMP1 class to be the top one. I think it's because it's too difficult to find a right balance between two classes with such a difference in minimal weight rule.
I think the ACO limits the performance of LMP2 cars in order to persuade manufacturers to enter LMP1 class.

Regarding Porsche for instance, they have to enter LMP1 class if they want to win overall classification. I mean, the opportunity exists. It's up to them.

If they choose to enter LMP2, they have to suffer consequences of this choice.

[RS Spyder]

I agree that they should enter LMP1 if they want to be consitantly winning the overall classification.
The problem is that the LMP1 rule heavely favors deisel engines, and no non-diesel manufacturer is going invest the kind of money required to develop a P1 car.
I have no problems with determining one class to be the top class. Just make it attractive to all, and don't artificially prevent other prototype classes from winning under certain circumstance.
This has almost always been the case in sportcar racing.

[1LM1]

But with the new fuel tank capacity for diesel cars, it's not so sure that the rule favors diesel anymore.

It would be interesting to see what a MANUFACTURER could do with a LMP1 petrol car.
If a very talented but very little team with very few money (Pescarolo) is behind Audi, that's not so surprising.

[RS Spyder]

From what I've read, the new fuel tank capacity measures are not enough to wipe out the rather substantial advantage.
I think it was Dyson's chief engineer that explained that even with the new fuel tank restrictions, the diesels would have such an advantage, that it was preferable for them to go to P2.

[1LM1]

But what Dyson's chief engineer said is not so fair I think.

It seems to me that Dyson would like to have the right to be faster than Audi. They forget that they have less money than Audi and that Lola had a lot less money when they created the B06/10. Audi's talent and the money spent by them explain maybe something.

Don't you think that Audi would have dominate Dyson if they had chosen to create a petrol car instead of a diesel one ?

Pescarolo says the same thing than Dyson but Yves Courage says different. He says that the rules are fair.
The two opinions exist.

I don't know who is right yet.

[RS Spyder]

I did'nt interpret his explanation as wanting to have the right to be faster than Audi, but rather a simple explanation on their choice to move down to P2.
Yes, I agree that would not be able to compete (sustainably) with Audi. Very few private teams are able to compete over a long period of time , with major manufacturers.
Let's hope Courage is right.

[1LM1]

Yes let's hope the rules are fair. I fully agree.
But I think it will be difficult to really know if it's the case or not before a manufacturer enter LMP1 with a petrol car. That's a problem.

I have the feeling that Porsche would do better than Pescarolo if they entered LMP1 with a petrol car.
I think the Porsche would be a lot faster than the Pescarolo. Maybe I am wrong but that's what I think right now.