pace-notes

[Duby]

hellow

i am a rally co-driver in Israel and all the rally scene is very young here.
in the last couple of weeks or so there is big debate about how to take the pace-notes and how all the rally world are doing it .
and what i mean ?
when you are comming to a rally , you go to a stage and doing the writing of the pace-notes . now , do you have a 2nd run on this stage to check what is written or you just have 1 pass on the stage and go on.

it really important to know how yoy do this in any country and in any level from club to national and intl.

thanks
duby

[DonJippo]

In Finland it's the same as in WRC, two runs.

[bowler]

different countries have different rules.

donjippo has explained the WRC requirements.

you would need to check what your own regulations are.

The Rally scene is more established in Jordan, and you may be able to get more information from there. I know that it may not be so easy to go there, but motorsport often transcends the restrictions of politics.

[GruppoB]

In the US we have just recently been trying to emrace pace-notes. We still heavily rely on Jemba computer generated notes. I think Jemba is a little ridiciulous and Nicky Grist seemed to agree.

Please dont go down the Jemba route unless you have to. IE you're competitors dont have the time to make their own.

[raybak]

We have two runs through the stages writing and checking our notes here in Australia. Many of the ARC stages are the same as previous years so you are mainly able to just check your notes from previous years.

If there are many new stages it can be quite difficult to keep within the Recce timeframes and speed limits. At Rally South Australia this year we finished Recceing the last stage in the dark.

Duby if you need any info on pace noting PM or email me, glad to help in any way.

Ray

[Duby]

thanks for the quick answers .

the big debate is if to do it once or twice .

i heard that in france and italy in the club level they do it only once ...is it true ?


duby

[bowler]

there are lots of reasons for the duration of recce.

If the roads are public, then residents are inconvenienced by recce in any form, so the numbers of passes is important.

If drivers treat it as practice and not as recce, then there is the likelihood of incidents which causes problems.

competitors have the costs in fuel and time to consider.

If the roads are private (forest or similar) then there is the inconvenience of the landowner to be taken into account.

some years ago recce was not controlled, and competitors could do as much as they wanted, and some did. Obviously they had an advantage over those who were not able to put in the time. At the other extreme is the argument that there should be none at all, and then everyone is equal, and there is no advantage. This then creates the "safety" argument which says that there should be some recce to make sure that there are no surprises.

There is no right answer.

[raybak]

I think that 2 passes of recce is enough. If there was no recce the local factor would make a large difference in results. I know many local drivers in Canberra can go a hell of a lot faster on a blind rally than out of staters. Yet when we have our pace noted events it evens them all up.

We have very regulated Recce here in Australia where they have officials at the start and finish of each stage. Certain car numbers are allowed in at different times so that the whole field is not trying to go along the same road thus causing traffic jams!

We hve strict speed limits for Recce, some rallies it's 80kmh others it's 60kmh. This can be difficult in some events to get through all the stages, so the planning is very important, that's where a codriver has to be on the ball before recce and work out all the distances to get all the stages done.

Ray

[castor]

Greece 4 passes
Italy and CZ 3 passes
ERC goes along country and FIA rules
WRC 2 passes

Specific days and times , a marshall is keeping your time in and time out of the stage ( a reconnaissance form has to be in the car at all times). No back and forth inside the stage is allowed. No roll cage , mufflers , road legal tyres (in Italy ordinary radial tyres even on gravel stages and no engine protection), speed limits are checked and if found overspeeding you may get a time penalty(3-5min) or even exclusion from the event.

Check also the Supplementary Regulations of various events like
http://www.elparally.gr/2006/common/...egulations.pdf
http://www.barum.rally.cz/2006/soutezici/zu_gb.pdf
http://www.rally1000miglia.it/images...%20inglese.pdf
http://www.ypresrally.com/docu/reg.pdf
http://www.patricksoft.fr/Antibes/Re...Inter_2006.PDF .

[FrankenSchwinn]

i remember that in france they used to do it as many times as you wanted and some would really go through the stages 10 times! now i think it's 3 times, i think. in the usa it's 2 times i think (for the rallies where you have to take notes because some rallies the organizers give you the notes already). switzerland is 3 times as well, i think.