What needs to be done with the ERC to make it a championship where becoming the European Champion means something, so they choose that instead of WRC2 or 3?
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What needs to be done with the ERC to make it a championship where becoming the European Champion means something, so they choose that instead of WRC2 or 3?
No expiration of homologation..
In other words open the eligibility to what the overwhelming per-centage of European drivers choose to drive when they have choice.....
Naturally I am thinking strictly literally..
The title "Champion" goes to a person.
Thus the car is secondary.
So rather than making a huge instant sampling bias by requiring only homoloated cars--cars intended to enrichen whoever has the deal on supplying Homologated cars and parts, thereby instantly pricing out most drivers and leaving only those with either rich daddies or daddies business connections, or their own compaies to plunder, open the car elegibility to anything in a normal ASN class..
Limiting things to 2wd and limiting travel to say 225mm might be good.
Then maybe a few Grupp H and F-cup guys could mix it up with the trustararians and Gentleman drivers out in the insanely expensive cars now.
A couple of years ago at Swedish Rally I saw in tn SM running together with--behind on what must have been roads with deep spår I saw Mats Jonsson in his Escort Cosworth setting times good for 4th, 5th, and 6th in WRC---in a car from 1997--but which the design goes back to at least 1982..
And it warmed my heart to see 2 guys in GpH Golf and one in limousine size Volvo 940 making SS times better than Rally Stupor Star Ken Block was making in what was basically the best car you could buy (and better and they give you the car, only)..the WRC Fiesta.
THAT ^ showed who can drive-- and who is worthy of giving credit and fighting to win titeln "European Chapignon"
That idea might well weed out the best pure driving talent, but I'm not sure forcing a bigger divide between the ERC and the WRC would make it a better stepping stone to the top class.
Limiting things to 2WD didn't work in every single attempt various ASNs tried. See British championship for example (similar experiments have been done here in CZ with lower tier series as well - also without success). Spectators are not interested in 2WD and sponsors are not intrested in series which are not interesting for spectators. Simple as that.
The thing is that ERC isn't a village championship. It's really expensive from it's nature - it means traveling through the entire Europe, staying there, driving long events etc. etc. I f You think You can attaract any significant number of drivers to ERC by allowing outdated homologations You are wrong. Nobody will dive those cars because people don't take part in expensive championship just to drive around. See why nobody keeps driving Punto S2000, why nobody was interested in Proton S2000. Those cars have been a lot cheaper than the top notch S2000 yet everybody keeps buying those expensive toys. The only and simple reason is that those toys are good. Why there are three drivers in the entire ERC driving Gr.N cars but twenty or so with R5/S2000? I don't even speak about 2WD championship which aside of JERC (which is outstanding) is just a joke with no interest at all.
It's not the cars what is bad in ERC. There was a looot of registered drivers, many with top cars available. The problems are in other things - media promotion is terrible and that's the core of everything.
The calendar while reduced (which was for sure great decision) is still logistically very difficult with many events on distant islands. That brings big differences in the competition level from one event to another. Sorry to say that but Acropolis this year was really bad for example. Also Cyprus with nonsential clash of rules between ERC and MERC is another problematic event.
While the mandatory registration certainly helped ERC it brought another strange phenomena which shall be avoided in the future - huge number of drivers paid the registration fee (3000 Euro) just to have better starting position on their home event. I think it can be solved by giving wild cards for local drivers who will drive only once. It may not be for free but certainly it shall not cost like the whole championship. The local specialists don't harm the series in any way, quite the opposite and it's nonsense to bring obstacles for them to take part.
There were big lapses in the rules and steward decisions. For example during Barum rally a lot of teams were fined or penalised for not having readable bar codes on their tyres. That is something what those teams can't in any way affect so where is the logic to give them penalties for that? Now imagine that a lot of such teams did the whole rally with one set of tyres and the FIA gave them on top a fine of 300 Euro for every single infrigement they found during the rally - even multiple fines (and later also time penalties) for having still the same four tyres on the car from start to finish! For some of them the fines meant a premature end of the season and I'm sure that such stupid decisions will bring the number of locals who enter the ERC field down for next edition. That's just wrong. FIA shall encourage the teams to take part, even those poor ones, not penalize them for trying to fight with low budget.
So if you should propose 8 rallies, 4 gravel and 4 asfalt, that has a logic and cheap logistics for teams - what would they be Mirek?
Rallycross are combining some world rounds with the european championship, could that be an option, or will it drown in the WRC round?
If the WRC and ERC had the same promoter they could work together - you could even rotate events from year to year between both series. As it is, RedBull promote WRC, and Eurosport promote the ERC - I'd say it's nigh on impossible to work together.
I could write here some my dream series but for what? It doesn't work like that.
Combining WRC and ERC is bad idea. Nobody wants to be viewed as second-tier competitor and those who fight for victories don't want to compete in some 4th level joint event after WRC, WRC2 and WRC3...
you cannot do this no matter what, simple reason is that rallying is not that popular like track sport, you have far less competitors and far less choices plus the format doesn't help much.
I think an idea to try and help turn ERC around would be for Eurosport to link in with some of the national rally championships and maybe say contribute towards their champions being able to compete in ERC the following year e.g. you win the BRC in 2016 in R5 car, Eurosport will help fund a drive in ERC for 2017.
If they linked in with numerous national championships like this, they could have different champions competing against each other e.g. British champion competing against German champion against Czech champion make it seem like it's the best in Europe competing - all wanting to be in the ERC
Also Eurosport need to promote the events, more live coverage and better time slots.
Events - stick to where people can afford to go.
There's only place for one international manufacturers rally series.
Profiting from VW's participation, Todt manage to get a partial WRC revamp (yet not fully completed due to RB/MH slow working pace), putting a stop to IRC growing aspirations.
ERC's future it's linked on Eurosport ability to make a competitors friendly championship, directed to private teams, once it's hard to see manus directly involved in short term.
I know it has a totally different nature, but SRO Blancpain GT series came to mind when thinking about a top privateer motorsport series. Could Blancpain GT sucess be reproduce at rally level?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blancp...durance_Series
Helps when endurance racing can attract super car manufacturers though.
Blancpain GT series are the main european GT racing series, developed by Stephane Ratel Organization (some years ago also responsible for FIA GT World Championship). They are one step bellow WEC, using less developed GT cars (GT3 instead of GTE).
Like Mark noticed, manufactureurs aren't directly involved at the series, even if they effectively supports all major teams, but the series most noticeable feature it's their ability to attract amateurs drivers, enable them to participate alongside pros (drivers are classified according to their racing status).
Blancpain GT runs on 2 separate champs: Sprint, with 7 races, and Endurance, with 5. Endurance champ it's the most popular, taking place at charismatic circuits (Monza, Silverstone, Paul Ricard, Spa and Nurburgring).
Worldwide TV coverage, in lots of cable channels (one year I saw it via Bloomberg!) and also web live races.
http://www.blancpain-gt-series.com/
http://www.sro-motorsports.com/
Aspects that ERC could retain from Blancpain: limited number of events; events location/charisma; amateurs classes; TV/Net coverage.
This is the age-old question regarding the European Rally Championship. Many drivers have won the crown, and found it to be a road to nowhere. If you read the end of season reviews for the ERC in Rallycourse going back to the beginning of time, the same question you have posed has been asked, time and time again, with no answer.
So the original question is how to make it something that is a proper feeder series to the WRC?
The cars are secondary, the R5/S2000 group are affordable and accessible and will continue to improve in that area with Hyundai and probably Toyota in there soon so that's not the problem.
I think two things need to change:
1) Teams not drivers enter races
2) The best drivers from around the world are selected - not just from Europe
At the moment the rallying model is typically a driver needs to find a car and enter a series. Teams don't look around to find the best drivers typically. That means only ones with support from their home association/sponsor/daddies money get a car. They aren't the best drivers.
At the moment in the ERC the drivers are all European. Yes I know it is the ERC but if you want to encourage global talent to be found and fed in a series that is ultra competitive (and then watchable) then it needs to be a properly international series - with international drivers.
Look at Formula 3 in Britain or Germany, the drivers come from around the world. Domestic series but international drivers. What is currently the problem is the driver is not identified for Rallying but they must also bring a car. In these other series teams all competing in a series will shop around for the best driver, and then bring them into a competitive series to grow them (and to secure good results for the team). GP2 is another example, the team enters and the driver line up isn't finalised until the last minute.
Best example I can give of this is Hayden Paddon in 2011 won the PWRC in a Symtech Subaru. He found the team and the money. Then in 2013 he went to Ypres with Symtech again - a car preparer from Belgium in a Belgium rally. Why? Because they knew he was good, and they wanted to showcase their Fiesta S2000 to their market. He didn't disappoint being the only person to stop Loix winning all the stages on the first day. Don't get me wrong he would still have had to fund part of it but they also saw the value in putting him in the car.
So how do you get teams to enter and see it as a business? Money, from TV rights, from winning (and sponsors). Which goes back to the promotion of the events. Until the promoter provides a model where there is a financial incentive for a team to enter it will always remain a sport where only those with money can enter - which will not provide the best drivers.
After becoming (too) big, we tend to forget the way how successful enterprises have began...IRC started in 2006 with only 4 events and was meant to be a challenge for top privateers drivers in select and prestigious rallys.
Maybe it's time for Europsort to go back to IRC roots, turning ERC into a top privateer drivers/teams series, with some revamp measures like these:
- A contained calendar, with only 6 charismatic events.
- A new amateur category, for R5 and S2000 less ranked drivers, instead of obsolete GrN/ERC2.
- Championship teams allowed to get points from their two best drivers, instead of just one.
- Attractive season final prizes: a full ERC season for Junior champ and a full WRC2 season for ERC champ.
- TV power stage, at every rally.
The first season was just an experimental one. Nothing more.
And what it is now when Škoda left?
Not economical for promoter.
How do You define amateur? Besides that there is already a privateer trophy and unlike works drivers they even get prize money. For example first privateer in finish of every particular rally gets 7000 Euro no matter how many works drivers are ahead of him.
Team championship for two cars is contradicting the wish for privateer series. As no fans anyway care about team trophy in ERC I think that the best way would be to cancel such trophy at all.
That's very expensive and ERC in this moment and also close future can not make so much money itself to allow such prizes. As FIA is unable to prepare something like that in WRC we can't expect even half-efford in ERC. The Golden Stage on Cyprus which was closest to Your proposal was funded by the organization not by promoter. Combining ERC and WRC can not work since both series have different promoters. Why shall one invest money in the other? That makes no sense.
I personally don't like powerstage concept at all as in my opinion it has nothing to do with the spirit of rallying but for sure some live action shall be a high priority of the promoter. In this moment they do very little to promote the series.
I hope Eurosport Events guys can be more open minded than you...
You can hope for whatever You want. I'm just afraid that You will stay disappointed. Eurosport guys must ensure a profit for their shareholders and that's the base point of everything. It's not charity what they have been running.
Good point Jarek, the first IRC team ever was works FIAT.
In 2016 ERC stand the chance of becoming as it used to be - not important.
British Rally Championship is taking in 4wd again, and has many of the elements that has been mentioned here as success factors.
~ Concentrated events. All on the Island
~ Nice rallies on two surfaces
~ Guess it will TV coverage
~ Free tyre choice (sponsor)
~ possibility to rent cars from local firms, less expences in logistics
What can be done with ERC to stay out of the walley of shadows?
Logically ERC should be a logical tier 2 series, in the part of the world with most money and drivers.
But if WRC2/3 can buy you a better product for aprox same sum of money, and BRC attacks from below - your playing ground becomes narrow.
So does ERC stand a chance as is, or at all?
How did you work out WRC2 is a better product? I think it's probably more expensive too due to longer rallies.
It would be nice if BRC could become what it was back in the F2 era but the popularity of rallying in the UK has fallen so much i don't know if that is possible.
I wonder why they even bid to be the ERC promoter. They've done very little. Like most promoters in Motorsport, they do as little as they can, while raking in the rights/ events money.
The current ERC is better than the old ERC, but is nowhere near what the IRC was.
The IRC was run by the same promoter. Why is it different? Maybe because it's not only about the promoter but also the FIA. Anyway I don't agree that the old IRC was better. Yes, through several years it had awesome driver quality and some extremely good events with great TV coverage but it wasn't only like that. There were many downsides - very unequal quality of the events and of the entry fields, sometimes crazy simple rules (for some areas pretty much non existent), a lot of changes of the calendar during the season etc. The ERC hase better basis in terms of rules and calendar, the rest got worse mainly because WRC got better.
Is ERC that different?
All events of European championship are concentrated in Europe
Nice events on three surfaces
Some TV coverage
Free tyre choice
Possibility to rent cars from local firms
So all those points apply for ERC too.
If You want to bring back the golden IRC years You need to bring back manufacturers. Škoda dominance which led Peugeot to outsource their campaign through "private team" further led to the situation when there is no official manufacturer team at all. Only manufacturer teams bring the attention of the crowds. We can only hope that Hyundai or Opel will decide to win ERC. IF they do others will follow.
And it is the tier 2 series. As such it shall concentrate on promoting the JERC (and it rightly does so).
WRC2 is a lot more expensive than ERC. Its main advantage is that it is World Championship. The name means a lot plus if You want to drive WRC one day You need to get experience on WRC stages. You may be a God of ERC but You still need two or three seasons in WRC to get in. The way to WRC through ERC is simply too long.
A chance against what? ERC is no competition for WRC just as FIFA Euro is no competition to FIFA World Cup. It can become a competition to WRC only if the WRC is completely fucked up. That was nicely illustrated by those several years when WRC was down and IRC up. Once WRC got to the better shape IRC went down.
Well from 2009-2011 the IRC was pretty good, not perfect; the 2013-2015 ERC hasn't come anywhere near. And I can't recall any Live coverage of any events. Eurosport are doing the bare minimum in regards to promotion. C+ Could do better??
I agree with that part about the promotion but even when they run some live TV stages in IRC times it was mostly for the money of event organizers/countries than for their own. But yes, definitely they shall do more.
Except for 3 rallies all rallies are in the outskirts of Europe.
All except Ypres, Barum and Raid Rzeszowski
Not sure whether 'best in second tier WRC competition' or best in Europe sounds better to be honest.
Mikelssen, Meeke and Neuville didn't have the 2-3 years you talk about, although the first two had some previous experience of WRC stages. On the other hand what WRC2 driver has progressed to a works drive? Paddon is maybe their biggest success story.
Tanak. It was called SWRC, but he did it in 2011 and then for 2012 had a works WRC drive. But look how that turned out for him!
And Paddon did better in PWRC (champion) than he did in SWRC (4th) or WRC2 (only did 1 round). But I agree, experience of stages is rather important in rallying.
Come on, Meeke has been around since 2004 or so. He has done a lot of WRC events already in JWRC. You can't take him for a newcomer ten years later. Mikkelsen has had a lot of WRC starts already before he went to IRC and right now he finished the 4th post-IRC season (the first one was with VW Fabia S2000). Neuville did JERC in the same time as IRC (plus some single rounds of WRC in previous years) and now he finished his 4th complete WRC season.
Together these guys spent more then 15 seasons in WRC and they managed to win how many times? Each one of them once? They are good and they definitely benefited from being part of the IRC show in its strongest days but still they didn't come as something groundbraking to the WRC. Still we talk about times when they had to fight with those like Hänninen, Kopecký, Loix, Rossetti etc. but all of those guys left ERC...
My point is that I don't see a great body of evidence to suggest WRC2 is that much better for someone looking to get a WRC drive. Sure it is important to learn the events but how many WRC event winners has SWRC or WRC2 produced?
Regarding Meeke, not sure how relevant some JWRC events 11 years ago are to WRC now?
Fair point on Mikelssen and his year in the VW Fabia.
Neuville's WRC experience was quite minimal and he was already very good in only his second year in a World Rally Car.
Assuming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...Championship-2 is accurate, one WRC2 event winner has also won a WRC event - Mikkelsen?
However in the last couple of years, how many people have won a rally that aren't named Seb or Jari that has not been gifted it by a VW failure? No one... So does going straight to WRC, doing WRC2 or IRC make a difference to your likelihood to being able to win? Stats would suggest no?
The only real way it seems to become a winner is to drive a VW or sabotage the VW's.
I agree and in same time not agree.
Yes, some events are quite far away (Acores and Canarias), in the same time, events in Baltics and Ireland , also Greece are not that far away.
Of course, for the name of European Championship, some events in France/Germany/GB should be added, but is there a possibility?
Guess, organizers from those countries are not so interested to host ERC event because of some reasons. And also, gravel rallies in central europe are extinct, aren't they?