Being reported in Australia now...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-0...nault/10072236
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Being reported in Australia now...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-0...nault/10072236
Yeah, no wins for Danny for a while. He’s obviously towing the “Only a works team can win a championship” line and, in the next few years, Renault are the most likely team to break the top three teams domination of the sport. It might end up being a good move for him in the end, especially come 2021.
Unfortunately, I think he may live to regret it in the short term as I can see the Honda engine coming good before Renault do as a team. All RBR are lacking is straight line speed. They have everything else in their team and their chassis is second to none.
I would have stayed on for another two years with RBR if I were him and then thought about a Renault switch if Honda didn’t come good.
Wonder if RBR will decide to partner Verstappen with Gasly or Sainz now? Sainz matched Max during their rookie season (although had a lot more reliability issues), but Gasly is very highly rated. It's difficult for us to know who'd be the better driver considering that Hartley doesn't seem to be much of a benchmark.
Edit: Joe Saward expects Sainz to move to McLaren: https://www.motorsportweek.com/joesaward/id/00289. Fun how he doesn't even mention Gasly at all.
What a surprise move. Just look at the current points delta between RBR and Renault. Hope this doesn't become another Alonso or Villeneuve move.
He knows that Renault will do anything they can to beat Red Bull , given the grief they've suffered from them over the years .
And , the now very orange-tinted team will be taking on Honda works status , dumping the Renault power plant , so they will be extra-motivated .
If he felt it already wasn't a fair fight , he'll be feeling it now and for the rest of the season .
He'll be number two for the rest of the year .
Unless , of course , something can be done to get the poor bastard out of there during the break .
I've read that Sainz and Max didn't get along well , and that Dr. Helmut wasn't too pleased when Sainz left Torro Rosso for Renault , so it's unlikely he'll end up there .Quote:
Originally Posted by N4D13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Oh no! What a horrible grief Renault should feel against the Red Bull team that won four WDC and constructor titles and over 50 GPs within a decade with Renault engines. Now Renault sure has to be on a mission to destroy specifically them.
Give me a break.
Ricciardo with Renault is a good fit at this stage of his career I think.
He'll end up with Ferrari eventually - but not yet.
Its rare for a driver placement to be a somewhat surprise so its good when it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Gasley seems most likely for RBR but Alonso could be the dark horse. Alonso is still driving as well as ever.
I think we'd all love to see Alonso on a competitive car, but I don't think that'll happen anytime soon. And I don't see a reason why RBR in particular would go for the biggest prima donna in F1 when they've got a crop of very fast drivers who'll most likely remain in F1 for quite a few years, where Alonso only has one or two years left in the sport at most.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyzars
Give ME a break .Quote:
Originally Posted by zako85
You don't think it will be especially nice for the Renault guys to come home ahead of Red Bull ?
Past titles mean nothing to a company when publicly humiliated , especially when the failure is obvious to all .
They will remember the salt that was rubbed into their wounds .
You can decide , yourself , if you agree that they should feel aggrieved , but don't make the mistake of believing they won't get a good grin out of coming home ahead of the Bulls .
That was my point , in case you didn't see it .
One thing RBR can be confident of is that Alonso will always bring a car home - Max not so much. The other thing Alonso will tell them is if the Honda is a dog.Quote:
Originally Posted by N4D13
I would never refer to Alonso as the biggest prima donna in F1 - that title definitely belongs to another...:D
Keep in mind that Honda won't want Alonso in one of their cars either after his public repeated bashings of their engine. On top of that, driving a car with an Honda engine means that Alonso wouldn't be able to see out the 2018/2019 WEC season, as there's no way in hell that Honda would let him drive a Toyota. And Alonso has already got the Le Mans crown, but you can expect him to gun for the WEC one as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyzars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Such statement can only exist inside of a seriously deranged mind. Red Bull won 4 double titles for Renault engines, and is on the way to earn the 60th GP win while powered by Renault, but some people still think that Renault is being publicly humiliated. Wow.
Well, let me tell you one thing. Renault will be actually publicly humiliated next season when it fights along with McLaren, Force India and Haas for the fifth or sixth place, while RBR-Honda will continue winning races like they have been doing this season.
Honda only had to produce a quick engine that finished races and Alonso would've given them nothing but praise. Maybe he has actually spurred them into action.Quote:
Originally Posted by N4D13
Alonso is only flirting with different drives because he hasn't been able to get a competitive seat in F1 - the other drives are what he does when he's not working.
I wasn't really talking specifically about this year , but , OK .Quote:
Originally Posted by zako85
Perhaps I was dreaming all that agro between them in the past .
Could be .
Perhaps I am deranged , as you seem to suggest .
I do think that Honda will fight hard , as they had that public humiliation that was the partnership with McLaren .
I hope both trouble Ferrari and Mercedes .
But then , I may be deranged .
I had Danny as signing a new RB contract so a bit surprised to learn this.
Not sure its a great move but what do I know... I said the same when Lewis signed for Mercedes! :D
Danny will hopefully have weighed this up carefully and have some good insider knowledge or potentially face a few seasons of mediocrity which might tarnish his otherwise good record.
Alright, I think Ricciardo made a good move for the following reasons
1. This reminds me of Hamilton to Mercedes in 2013 move. It make look like a long uphill challenge initially but I think Renault are poised to challenge the big 3
2. Renault is a works team and to be honest the car is not too far behind. With Hulkenberg and Riccardo, I could see them with at least a few podiums and perhaps a win next year
3. Renault might be already be working hard towards the 2021 regs and be in an optimum position to challenge firmly going forward from there
4. The RBR Honda partnership is still an unknown quantity and IMO will be a a bit of a challenge in 2019
5. All indications were that Marko and the brass were firmly behind the Verstappen making the situation a bit contentious for Daniel
As for RBR, I think that Gasly gets promoted, and fairly quickly.
(if I was them, I would sign Alonso for 1 year and despite his acrimonious Honda relationship, might actually bring them a few wins next year, if the engine holds up,then have Gasly ready for the 2020 seats when Alosno retires.
I see Sainz going to Mclaren to partner with Vandoorne or Alonso,
If Vandoorne goes, I see him landing at Sauber with Leclerc (if kimi stays) and or Giovanazzi
In some ways somewhat unexpected, but in some ways you can see, why did he do that.
Looking at Renault's performance, they get lapped in races in which safety cars don't intervene. So their performance is nowhere near top teams and considering, how little fluctuations there is among top teams these days, it looks like Renault isn't threatening the front any time soon. Neither chassis nor engine is among the best, and this is an underwhelming combination.
Ultimately I think Ricciardo left Red Bull, because he doesn't want to be in the shadow of Verstappen. Back in 2014 some people claimed Vettel ran away from Ricciardo, so ironically now Ricciardo is doing the same from Verstappen. But who could blame him. Red Bull is unlikely to win a championship in the next couple of years either, unless Honda produces a miracle, and Ricciardo himself wants to be a top dog in a team too. That's the nature of a top driver.
It's a bit of a shame though that Ricciardo's destination is Renault, and the doors of two top teams, namely Mercedes and Ferrari, are locked. But that's the way politics and team hierarchies work. Part of me actually wonders if we ever see Ricciardo becoming a World Champion. For a driver, who had a brilliant 2014, and has outscored Verstappen in the last two seasons, and is still leading him in the points this year too, that's a tough fate. Ricciardo's career starts to resemble Alonso's recent career, and a talent like him getting stuck in midfield would be kind of sad. Without having properly fulfilled his potential. 7 race wins and not a single shot at the championship.
Red Bull wanted to sign him for 2 years, Ricciardo only wanted 1. So now he's off for a 1-year stint at Renault and then will search for a better option in 2020. It's as simple as that.
Do we know for certain that he's on a one-year contract?Quote:
Originally Posted by smsgrafica
On top of that, Joe Saward doesn't seem very inclined to buy that Sainz will be going back to RBR given the previous friction between Verstappen and him. So McLaren looks like the most logical destination. But it's probably not a very good deal for Sainz since Alonso has pretty much slaughtered every teammate for the last 11 years (with the exception of Button in 2015, but that season was a sham, so it's difficult to draw conclusions). For Sainz's career it may be better to partner Verstappen, whom he matched during their only season together.
I don't see Ricciardo as running away from Verstappen in terms of him being scared of being beaten by him. His record suggests he is still the better driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
Maybe scared of having a team mate favoured by the team as we seemed to have witnessed on a few occasions.
A perfectly understandable response IMO but there is a big difference between the two. I don't see Danny as being cowardly with this move at all.
I really hope it turns out far better than I think it will. Best of luck Danny!
While it was a surprise to hear of the move, after a moments thought, it appears a very good gamble. Clearly Ricciado wants to be on a progress trajectory that was heading upwards. The Redbull Honda partnership is bound to bring an initial stagnation or possibly a short drop in relative progress as the two heavy weights try to work together as a formal partnership. Then there is the quiet question everyone is asking; can these two work together successfully considering the notorious impatience and tactless criticism that Redbull is notorious for. Then there is the question of whether Honda can deliver the sort of engine that Redbull wants in order to remain in the sharp end of the grid?
When you look at these things, it becomes obvious that Redbull is a more risky option compared to Renault over the next two years at least. Some may venture to say that Redbull may be unlikely to win races with the Honda engine in their inception year, but may do so in the second year of the partnership. This implies that the F1 grid may shuffle somewhat in the 2019 season, with Renault looking like the most likely candidate to slip into the third best team slot while Redbull is sorting out its new relationship with Honda.
Chances are, this is the optimum decision available to Ricciado outside Mercedes and Ferrari. This is so because, Renault has clearly made some very noticeable progress this year. Their trajectory is very promising and looking likely to swing above Redbull's in 2019 and 2020. The lovely thing about Ricciado's contract, is it ends at the same time as everyones contract; as F1 goes into the new era of engines and chassis in 2021. The 2021 market shall herald some dramatic driver movements. Depending on how Ricciado's two years with Renault goes, we can still see him in Red Ferrari or Silver Merc gear. The real cost of the gamble to leave Redbull would be known in 2021. If the Redbull-Honda partnership delivers a gem of a car for that season onwards, and Ricciado do not get a Merc or Ferrari seat and Renault fails to deliver a top car, then we can say that he has made an Alonso decision. Really it would not matter either way as he would be over thirty by then and feeling the heat of new young talents influx into F1 gunning for his seat.
It is a real shame that he did not get into a top end team now while is clearly at his best. I would venture to say that after seeing the last two years of Bottas in the Merc, Ricciado is more deserving of that seat in my opinion.
I wouldn't totally count out Haas as a candidate for that spot. Given the progress this year it's a (small) possibility. They'll need to replace Grosjean with someone who has their head screwed on straight though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
I agree. This two teams are going to be the source of some interesting battles as they fight to be the best of the rest in 2019. It would be interesting to see if Haas can maintain their momentum going into 2019. I expect Renault to edge it over Haas by 2020Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
Add in that next year the front wings will be simpler , which may help the others against the Newey design .
Being as wide as the front tires may , as well , help everyone follow more closely in higher speed corners , which Red Bull currently does pretty well .
When your team publicly state they want Verstappen to be world champion, automatically take Verstappen's side after any incident and forget your tires after calling you in for a stop, then it is time to move on. I am thrilled he is leaving Red Bullock's. I would rather see him given equal treatment and fight for tenth. At least Ferrari admit they have a number two driver instead of cloak and dagger stuff like Red Bull.
Maybe I see the unfairness as a result of watching Webber suffer for years. Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Extraordinary from RB that they'd low ball and alienate their premier driver so much that he'd go to Renault. I don't get why they'd put all their eggs in Verstappen when he hasn't demonstrated season long consistency that's required to win a championship unless you produce an all time dominant car. Ricciardo has shown that he doesn't need a dominant car to win or be in contention for the title.
Daniel will bite them in the ass. They only thing he'd have to worry about is that I'd expect Hulkenberg to compare well to him and even elevate himself if Renault become serious contenders.
In the end, only Daniel himself knows the real reasons. Maybe after the season is over we will hear more about it, but then again maybe not.
The story will unravel in front of all of us as to whether it was a good move or not. Career wise I think most of the mid field or better drivers have options that might not just focus around money, but around their working environment as well as visibility and making their mark on the sport that might draw attention from the very top teams. There have been plenty of other driver moves over the years that I initially thought we poorly timed, but in hindsight turned out great.
I personally think RB have pushed him away with all the attention they have given to Max. I see Max as a great talent that will rise farther up as he matures. But I see Ricciardo as an overall more well rounded driver at current time. He also seems a downright decent guy, and often keeps an upbeat attitude. I'm sure Renault will be happy to have him, and it looks like they are already on the upswing this year.
I hope things work out well for both Daniel and Renault.
As for the rest of the seat swapping to come, I guess we will find out soon enough.
You could say the relationship between Ricciado and Redbull started to fracture from Monaco 2015 GP, l think; when they screwed up the race he had in the bag. He has had a number of races where he has started out of position due to engine penalties which some may be put to bad relationship between Redbull and Renault. It certainly would not impress Daniel that Redbull is refusing to take the latest parts from Renault and may have suffered engine penalties due to using outdated parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Ricciado has an inside perspective of how the redbull-Renault relationship has unfolded over the years. His move to Renault would suggest that he has more confidence in the Renault package than Redbull has.
This may well turn out to be an inspired move by Ricciardo but I can’t help but think that he knows that Max is getting quicker and more consistent all the time and that at some point in the next year or two he would have had to play a supporting role. Lets face it, Max has whipped him in qualifying and, barring some bad luck and some costly decisions, he would be well ahead of Ricciardo in the championship by now and possibly in contention for the title. Max is too talented to not iron out his inconsistencies pretty soon and Ricciardo knows that.
Christian Horner said the same recently that he believes the Max factor had a lot to do with Ricciardo’s decision. If this is true, it’s a shame he ran as soon as he was threatened, like Vettel did in 2014.
Whatever the reason, I don’t see Ricciardo winning for a long time now, unless Renault somehow produce something magical over the winter. I can see him getting Renault a podium before Hulkenberg though 😂😂😂
Daniel Ricciardo's decision to leave Red Bull is because he does not want to play the support role to Max Verstappen, claims team boss Christian Horner. (Planet F1)
As we suspected...
Quite surprised Horner admitted that...
Did they honestly expect Danny to accept a No2 position in the team to a kid? Pffft!
You know your true value and stood up for yourself... regardless of the success (it does or doesnt bring) I think you did the right thing Danny.
RB thought they could play hardball because no other top 3 team seats were up for grabs. Serves them right... hope they lose Newey to Renault too.
Horner clearly stated in his interview that Ricciardo would not have ever been playing a supporting role and that both drivers would always have received equal opportunity. Essentially the only supporting role would have been in Danny’s head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
I haven’t read the PlanetF1’s version of the interview but I have read the whole interview and he was very clear on what he stated. Your post takes what he said entirely out of context and puts a fake spin on it.
After the grief that he gave Honda at Mclaren, l very much doubt he would be considered at Redbull with a Honda engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyzars
But what do we think of Redbull and Honda for 2019? I have a sneaky suspicion that they [Honda with Redbull] may surprise many in 2019. The performance trajectory of the Honda is looking very impressive. It propelled Gastly to 4th in Bahrain l think. And it would be better in the 2nd half of the year. But reliability is still very much a problem.
That said, l would put money on Redbull winning a race with the Honda engine in 2019. I think Gastly has impressed so much, l think it is a no brainer that he may be shoehorned into the vacant seat. Unfortunately Sainz did not do enough at Renault to warrant a chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
I couldn't see it on PlanetF1 but have just watched the interview and.. yep, you're right, totally out of context. The first part of my post was the headline of the story for PF1 so wasnt my own spin on the story. I should have looked harder before posting it though so apologies... my bad. RB would never admit to it but its not hard to believe they might have been favouring Max over Danny. Id like to hear what Webber would say about this theory.
Unbroadcast Radio coms between Ric and the Engineers in Hungary. Surprising in quantity in itself but his 'yeah, whatever' type attitude at the end when they were congratulating him on his good drive, left me wondering if he is a bit pissed off... or just has a lot on his mind?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY-aN_6iYHI
Sorry to sound like the smartass, but quite honestly, that's to be expected if you read PF1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
I gave up on them a while ago because most of what they wrote was utter garbage. I'm sticking with Autosport and the Joe Saward blog now.
I watched the Chinese GP again today and what a brilliant race for Ricciado that was. It was one of those races where the relative maturity between Ricciado and Verstapenn showed a big gap in Ricciado's favour. This race was a race that Verstapenn could have won but slipped out of his reach due to two poor overtaking mistakes which handed the opportunity to Ricciado hovering behind the youngster after a brilliant overtake of Raikonnen.
From fifth, Ricciado sliced his way forward to win the race. Of course this was helped by some very quick smart thinking of Redbull to slap on some fresh tyres on both cars during the safety car of Hartley/Gasly accident. Both Mercedes and Ferrari were slow to react and paid dearly as the potential win slipped away.
One cannot help thinking Redbull may have won more than four races if they ensured that Ricciadso had access to the best equipment Redbull had available.