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The current R3 class is dead when it comes to new cars.
National/ Regional championships need a simple 4wd class that people can afford to buy and run on a smaller budget than the current 4wd classes.
Could we use the 1333 ccm turboengine as is in R3 today, and add 4wd or should one start from another base?
What is this thread good for? You keep mixing things which don't belong together. R3 is not 4WD and R3 doesn't use 1,33 turbo engines and never has been using them.
R3 uses 1,6 turbo engines and by adding them 4WD You basically get R4 which already exists.
Maybe start a thread about R1 too, we haven't seen new R1 cars for a while either. Maybe those could be 4WD too...
Well it depends on the eye that looks, and what perspective you choose to see from.
My perspective has always been the drivers/co-drivers, and possibilities for talemts to evolve.
I have never cared much for the car manufacturers. Normally every time they come in, the cost rises dramatically, and a few years later fewer and fewer get budgets to participate. WRC and WRX are splendid examples.
Not sure how many DS3s and Clios that has been buildt in 2018, but in WRC and ERC R3 is not very large anymore.
No mistake, I love the "rodents" (fwd), I still go to youtube to watch "best of Jean Ragnotti", and watching the R2 fights in WRC and nationally is always cool. The best way of learning car control is via Fwd.
But when a class is no longer supported with a drivers title, people look elsewhere.
And most agree with that the cost step btw R2 and 4wd classes is too large. So many talents falls off their career ladder in rally, and moves to other forms of motorsport, or quits all together.
The newest addition to R3 from FIA is the R3C T, up to 1333. I guess FIA have checked the possibilities in the market and found this to be the correct volume for new R3s. Or it was chosen by random in an office!? Who knows with them.
This list from Wikipedia is not 100%, since the Clio R3t is missing, and maybe more.
But WRC3 is dead, and ERC this year used N4 as their ERC2. That might be R4 next year.
RC3 R3T Up to 1620cc Turbocharged Petrol 1080 kg Two-wheel drive 2500 per year WRC-3, JWRC Citroën DS3 R3T[8] R3C 1600cc to 2000cc Naturally aspirated Petrol 1080 kg Two-wheel drive 2500 per year WRC-3 Renault Clio R3C 1067cc to 1333cc Turbocharged none R3D Up to 2000cc Supercharged Diesel 1150 kg Two-wheel drive 2500 per year Fiat Grande Punto R3D
So maybe it could be a possibility for FiA to make a generic simple 4wd framework for any tuner to add to the R3T, and to use the 1333 ccm option for that. Not to mix with 1,6 R3T, but could of course also be 1,6t engines since they could be bought today.
If you ask drivers, many would like a shot at driving 4wd, but can not find the budget. Not all drivers with large talent have comtacts with large wallets, but they still need a possibility.
that could be a nice national or even regional class for people to start to compete in 4wd, to fill the hole after N4.
I've never ever heard a driver or co-driver say that... In fact I heard the opposite, that it's not because you're fast in a FWD car, you will be also quick in a 4WD car...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
It makes absolutely no sense. R3C and R3T run in the same class and whatever under 1,62T could have been homologated as R3T for ages and there is near zero reason to do so except if it shall be a one-make cup car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Just why? Nearly nobody cares about R3T, nearly nobody cares about R4. Why shall anyone care about another hybrid between these two? Where is any logic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Why not just get rid of R1, R3 and R4? In national championships you can drive whatever basically and for international ones you'd have current R2 for FWD, R5 as the cheap 4WD and WRC as the crazy expensive nearly unreachable pinnacle class.
I agree with You. It's what came out of the experience anyway. The FIA classes which clearly work are these You mentioned - R2, R5, WRC. So why not to get rid of the rest and let national ASN decide what they want on the national level (most do that already anyway). They know local conditions better than FIA guys somewhere in Paris after all. You brought a good question - why do we need more international classes?
Answer from Riku Tahko when discussion was used R5 has same price than new R4
"Price is around that but if you count together some of the universal parts in motorsport like transmission, electrics, suspension and engine you can really (most cars use same suppliers) you can't go much cheaper than when building a modern rally car."
Some people here in forum just doesnīt understand that certain components have about same price, no matter which car you built.
When you use standard parts, your car will not last.
It just isnīt possible to do cheap reliable car.
I also kind of think that R5 and R2 are enough for FIA events (+WRC for WRC events) and national series can have national rules.
Had another thought. If there would only be the three classes (R2, R5 and WRC) at international events, then not to lose the lazy development of R4 and the growing number of protos, maybe a class that would be called like 'Amateur' or sth and would have more loose rules for those who would like to build the 4WD car themselves? No separate championship or title for it tho.