N&R thread for 2019
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N&R thread for 2019
can a mod delete this thread ??
its trash.
Are there some R&R changes in the pipeline from FIA for 2019?
Could this be true?
New naming system of rally car classes
Formula 1 sets the direction. Who carries the number "1" in the name, is generally recognized as the highest level. In rally sport, however, this is exactly the other way round, where "Rally 1" (R1 for short) is considered an entry-level class. In customer sports, it goes up to R5 vehicles, the top ("World Rally Cars") carries no R designation.
This classification will change in the future, because the FIA is working on a new structure in which all designations are literally turned on their heads.
In the future, the entry-level vehicles will be referred to as "Rallye 5". Here, the World Association of cheapest cars, which can be equipped with a simple manual transmission, to a standard sequential gearbox (eg Opel Adam Cup), but must be provided in any case with a homologated by the manufacturer safety package ,
One level above the previous R2 cars are classified as "Rally 4". Again, there will be a new technical regulations shortly. The previous R3 vehicles have apparently had their day, because under the name "Rallye 3", the FIA plans cheap four-wheel-drive vehicles, which, as in the "Rallye 1" group, have standard parts and could resemble the original Group-N.
As a result of the changeover, the currently most successful customer sports vehicles will no longer have the suffix "R5" but will be listed as "Rally 2" (R2). It is quite possible that the new Volkswagen Polo, which is due to celebrate its premiere in the autumn, will soon be renamed "R5" to "R2".
In the rally sport, the top class will in the future carry the "1", here you will find the modern World Rally Cars again, the fastest rally cars in history.
Original news article: https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/ar...rallye-system/
Good to see the FIA addressing the real problem with this sport.
He he, not that important as such, but makes it more logical across autosport, for non petrolheads to understand what the topdog class is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
But that Fia acknowledges a miss with R4, and will make a less expensive new R3 class with 4wd, is for many more youngsters more important.
Yes, the totally most logical thing for a common guy is to understand why Fabia R5 runs in R2 class and Peugeot 208 R2 in R4 class...
It's nearly as logical as how the Bombardier CS100 became the Airbus A220 :D
we are 4 months away...
stop being trash...
why have 2 threads ?
I guess all R5 cars quickly will be renamed R2, also older models, and the same for all carclasses exept R3, that will change to 4wd anyway.
I dont think this will be a problem for very long.
But to have a championship and a carclass called the same is at best strange.......
I have to agree with N.O.T here, this thread is useless for 4 months.
No. R3 becomes R4, R4 becomes R3... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Sorry but absolutely not. How are You going to explain that all the marketing job promoting R5 was in fact promoting hidden R2? How are You going to explain that the websites dedicated to the R5 cars were in fact dedicated to R2? How are You going to explain that all the catalogs, manuals, tools, spare parts with R5 written on them are actually all about R2 stuff? How are You going to explain the nonsensial change in event results from year to year in let's say twenty years?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Does it make sense to You? Seriously this is more than retarded proposal.
If nothing else, sticking with the 'R[Number]' nomenclature while completely reordering the system does seem like a ridiculous recipe for confusion on every level. At the very least, they'd need a new nomenclature.
It will drop to the bottom of the first page for the time being. Big deal. Jesus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Essaj
This thread seems apt, but only for April 1st 2019!!
I would open a new thread to vote wether this one is useful or not.
Marketing: all people you are marketing towards will know within a short period of and understand that it things will have to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Websites: this is easy to change. Most of this is manufacturers, and have people dedicated for IT.
Documents: find R5, replace with R2.
Historical results: put in a sentence on change of name by a date.
In a few months this will be fixed, and the relatively few people this concerns, will all understand and be onboard.
Mirek, you think this is stupid, and try to find arguments to fight it off. I do the opposite.
I understand FIA on this issue, admitting that the R Class naming convetion is not logical compared to other competitions, and want to fix the error.
This is meant for non petrolhead people, to easier understand what kind of level a car is in the hierarchy. Also for drivers chasing sponsors that are not very familiar with rally classes.
That a R5 car is driving in RC2 or WRC2 is the next quickest cartype is not logical to average joe.
Using your logic you have to agree with this?
This is not a big issue, but I understand why the rally comission want rally to come in line with formula racings class logic. :D
That kind of people really don't know about anything about rallying. And why he need to know the hierarchy of rally car classes if they barely know the sport. As I said they don't care and will not care even if they change these numbers after R.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
So logically they would have to call WRC cars, R1 cars...
That sounds awful.
In the end it will turn out to be just as expensive as every previous try and unaffordable for young drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
One only have to get used to the new. It takes a while. Then it´s nothing.
Like changing your officeroom to second floor ... from first or the other way around.
The article seems a bit vague on that. It’s known the FIA was working on the renovation of current R1, R2 and R3, but it’s hard to believe they’ll bin the new R4 after taking so long to sort it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
If this renaming is going to happen I see it more like this:
R1: current WRC; R2: current R5; R3: current R4 (Kit Oreca); R4: mix of current R2 and R3; R5: sort of current R1+ or R2-.
Hopefully, they’ll also give a number to RGT and end having 6 classes rather than 5.
That's is all just a waste of energy which shall be spent on solving real problems. They can start with having a look on the aging 2WD car fleet and think why they have not introduced proper R2T rules already few years a go. The most popular rally class is using old and largely outdated cars and engines. That's the real problem and not how those cars are named.
Word is that one R2 is finally about to come early next year. Nothing in R3 AFAIK.
Follow the Sportscar example; LMP1, LMP2, etc so you could have WRC1, WRC2, WRC-GT,
And I'd agree with Mirek about the outdated cars & engines......Small 1.0 Litre turbocharged engines are getting more popular; why not a category/ class for them?
Additionally, I'd like to see a proper 2WD class, but I'll keep dreaming...
I think that there is a lot of stock cars with their potential for use in rallying completely ignored (and which are moreover produced by traditional rally-affiliated manufacturers). I mean mainly a whole army of hothatches which only need rules to make them eligible. Is writting a rulebook for them really harder than to convince manufacturers to build special cars like Adam R2 which has very little common with the stock product? Isn't it easier to take a stock hot hatch and with a rather small effort make it a sort of gr.N rallycar?
Of course I do rememeber the fail of Renault with Megane RS but that was only because the car was put in the same class as the 4WD cars. Wouldn't it be better if it was racing against Golf GTI or Civic Type-R?
Some of You may say that I'm going against my own arguments from the past when I was refering about a potential new gr.A as about a nonsense. I still do. The key is that here I don't mean a top class in the sport. In the lower classes there shall be a natural will to use everything what is freely available on the market.
Japanese website gives potential order of 2019 Calendar as follows.
MC SWE MEX CHI ARG POR ITA FIN TUR GER AUS ESP JAP WAL
link to article https://www.as-web.jp/rally/397349?all
I would view it as just rumor until we see something official
Why doesn´t Adam fit in your arguments for stock cars? You more look at Adam as made special for rallying? Then you know maybe inside info from Opel company board?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Pity we cant have 4WD Audi S1 vs Focus RS vs Golf R instead of ancient Evos...
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/823/4...558b79c4_o.jpgDSC_4709 by Ben, on FlickrQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
AP4 has one out of three at least!
:D
all three if Polo and Fiesta will do instead of Golf and Focus. Plus Mazda, Toyota, Holden, Hyundai etc... not production cars though.
Adam R2 has very very little common with the stock Adam. Not much more than the bodyshell. You can't even buy Adam with 1.6 engine. Nothing like that ever existed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
So what about the Adam Cup car?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Well... yes, again an engine which You can't buy in stock car but it's fully stock engine on the other hand. Honestly the Cup car is a perfect entry car but without the work done for R2 it would likely not exist. So why not to use the same formula for stock cars which already have suitable engine?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
I like the way you're thinking; possibly a 'Hot Hatch' class?? Mainly FWD cars - Megane RS, Golf GTi, i30N, Focus ST, etc And instead of trying to beat each other with fastest lap times on the Nurburgring - we get a proper competition on the stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
So you'd have WRC1, WRC2, WRC-HH/FWD for example....
I don't think that this could be that interesting for WRC events. More for national or regional events (and mostly only for asphalt countries) because these cars exist on the market and are affordable. IMO there is also no need for new classes. They can be accommodated in R3 class which is dead anyway.
I agree. But the example of non stock car as for Adam was not bthe best.
For regional event a cup from any manufacturer would boost. For example the Suzuki Swift. However gearbox should always be at least dogboxquality.
Adam Cup is non-FIA car so it's rather irrelevant in regard to discussion about FIA rules. It was created as a side-project along the R2 which is an FIA car, which is good but an expensive car and which has near nothing common with the stock car and which is using an outdated engine (in terms of current Opel's portfolio and marketing trends). The point was a question why did Opel need to build a special car even for lower classes when it had Corsa OPC or Astra OPC on sale?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Spot on. Gr.R cars are all developed by the manus or their official tuners. We know there’s usually a limited number of manus involved in rally and most of them are mainly interested on overall wins. That’s why we have almost the same number of WRC and R5 models homologated than all R1, R2 and R3 cars combined. Besides, manus built rally cars are always expensive, which makes even harder for privateers to get in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal the 2nd
The only way to open the sport to a wider range of brands and models is to have private tuners back, through a more liberal regulation for national and international use, just like it was done with AP4 in the FIA Asia Pacific series or Maxi Rally on FIA Codasur.
Probably that was R4 global aim, but having a single supplier for the class was a terrible idea. The FIA can still make R4 work if they end Oreca’s monopoly and allow each nation major tuners to locally build similar cars under a common R4 regulation; the same could be easily done for a new 2WD class and both would be complementary to current R5 and WRC top categories.
Thanks for the link to this interesting article. Even if it is speculation, I believe it is close to reality and likely based on conversations with the Rally Japan promoter. Last week, I was told unofficially that 2019 Rally Japan is on. Now, it looks like its date has been decided, too (start of November written in body of calendar, but end of November written in 'draft' calendar at the end of the article?). The suggested calendar also slots Chile in at end of April and the article says that there is a strong possibility that not only Corsica, but also Turkey and Germany will be dropped for 2019!Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiWRCfan
If that 2019 info is correct Rally GB is to return to its traditional end of Season late-November spot.
This was usually the harder challenge for driver's with the wet cold weather and short daylight.