Feel free..
his profile:
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php ... den-Paddon
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Feel free..
his profile:
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php ... den-Paddon
All the previous debate could be moved here as well ;)
Does it have a sense to have special thread for one driver? Especially when I think that there is lot of words about him now when he joined Hyundai, but is na future...
To Franky: It is not possible to move all talks from "news thread" here as the posts were made before first post on this thread.
Well, one third of recents posts in News and Rumors is filled with Hayden talk. I and I belive that most of the readers would prefer to read only News and Rumors from that thread not to read pages of discussion about him. Many dirvers have had their own thread, he is the next.. lets see.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
A few more details here
http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00006121&10
As an Australian, it's pretty exciting to read that Paddon has some potential. I agree with solitt, on the other thread, about hiring guys who can win. You look at Chris Atkinson, he didn't even bother winning an Australian title, before thinking he could do WRC. Now, he's just a journeyman (Not that there's anything wrong with that...Well, maybe there is). Aside from driving, you've also got to learn how to kick arse.
Just a little point for You.
Loeb has never won national title, he even never tried. He did only Citroën Saxo Trophy which he won before he moved to JWRC (which he won on first attempt). Same goes for Ogier. He went to JWRC with only two seasons in Peugeot 206XS trophy (winner in 2007) followed by JWRC victory on first attempt in 2008. Tommi Mäkinen also never won a national title (only one gr.N class one but not overall) and the same goes for Juha Kankkunen or Walter Röhl, . The list of WRC champions who never won their homeland title is long and the fact that none of the most successful (Loeb, Mäkinen, Kankkunen) bothered with trying at home shows that it's relatively irrelevant and I tend to agree with the opinion that it's a waste of time for those who really want to become something and has a backing for it. Taking experience all around the world even in small car gives way more than driving at home.
Dimitar Iliev won 9 times Bulgarian Rally title (looks like a decent record), but that didn't mean anything on international scene. Don't try to find any pattern in successful drivers, it is meaningless. The only fact that counts is one's personal ambition and abilities of course. I'm sure Paddon has the ambition, the abilities we can measure after at least 1 full season with WRC, if it only depends of his driving. No one has jumped in WRC and won right away, even Loeb.
I thought Loeb won the 2001 French Championship with the Xsara Kit Car :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
but indeed I agree with that, many drivers had success at world level without winning anything in their country and especially vice versa.
talk is now meaningless... it is good that a fast driver gets his chance... if he is the next Loeb is good for the sport if he is not the little kids will run back to their mommies...
Ah, You are right. I forgot. Thank YouQuote:
Originally Posted by focus206
For sure it´s not an argument winning or not in homeland championship.
One of the most experienced guys I know with a lot of connections in the worldwide rallying once said that the only thing that matters is to start doing rallies abroad out in Europe at lowest possible cost (small car).
I do believe that is still the concept to adapt becoming a future WRC-star. Of course the talent in driving must be there as well.
Most of those names came from countries with very strong backing for rallying and an established process for building people up to the top tiers of rallying (ie the ASN actually supports/funds in a significant way as the have the ability to!). Plus they are European, so the key events to learn in are local and comparatively cheap (I mean this in comparison to flying half way round the world with your team and car).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
You can't really compare that to the Asia Pacific market, which has very little ability to progress swiftly with good competition and at a reasonable cost. APRC is relatively expensive and a very limited range of competitors (last year rounds were won outright by a 2WD R1 car) and doesn't really have a well contested 2WD feeder category.
Australia I guess is an option, but only recently has their been a chance to progress in a well supported 2WD series? So realistically you have to spend some time here learning how to drive and succeed before you can show enough worth to be able to go further. There has been several from this region who have moved to competing internationally but Atkinson, Possum Bourne and Arai are the only ones who have succeeded to some degree at this for some time now, and they all date back to effectively a different generation in the WRC.
So only real option is to move to Europe and do the events you can afford for those of us from the bottom of the world. But you can't get support to do that without a money tree or sponsors, and to get sponsors you need results... So in this context I feel winning local/regional events is important for anyone from this part of the world.
Atkinson has plenty of WRC starts.
Fair point. Thank You.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkvy
My reference to winning a national tile was not a suggestion that doing so is an automatic ticket to a WRC seat, or that it should be a prerequisite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
It was merely one part of a suggestion, that has been paraphrased by a few, that if you want to hire someone to win you're better to hire someone who has won everything they've entered rather than someone who has won nothing.
Those who win continually are likely to continue to do so, those who don't are likely to continue not to.
I undesrtand your point, a winner is a winner no matter what championship he is in (of course it can't mean much depending of the championship, as I pointed out "our Bulgarian" case). The fact Paddon is in WRC this year already means he is a winner, as it turns out how difficult it is to get there for drivers of this area indeed. Let the fortune be with him to achieve his goals, because this is rare opportunity as he said himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt
Last weekend saw the running of the Otago Rally and the Otago Classic Rally. This event is a round of the NZ Rally Championship with 292km of special stage distance.
The footage is in-car from Paddons BDG Historic Escort.
Hayden won the event outright.
it has been 25 years since a 2WD car has won a round of the NZ Championship
Enjoy the 15.05km Kuri Bush stage with Hayden
For those who are interested the Rallysafe unit is showing distance, elapsed time and road speed.
https://www.facebook.com/haydenpaddo...1092926926498/
I wanted to resurrect this thread because I've read this article about Paddon's coaching session at Le Mans Circuit.
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/septe...3--12-12-.html
But especially because this guy is in my opinion the real surprise of this season.
He is the only one that showed potential and in the meantime achieve some great results and improvements compared to last year.
He seems to me he is also a very clever guy with a cool head. He is not that kind of guy that wants all and soon. He is ambituous but smart enough not to ruin everything with haste to reach the level he wants to be.
And I also like all the works he is doing with his coaching sessions on tarmac and I am sure he will improve in this surface as well.
I think he should also improve his pacenote system which seems to me too much simplistic but I think he has the right mentality to be one or maybe the only interesting prospect in WRC at the moment.
The other could be Tanak but Paddon seems to me more clever and mature, even if in raw speed Tanak is a bit better in my opinion.
What do you think about?
+1 Paddon is a future star in WRC.
I agree. Somehow I saw that coming when he signed Hyundai, of course 1st year is a learning year and now the "real" results begin to come. He seems very positive and dedicated driver with talent. That seems to be the whole package along with his methodical work. He also is not that slow on asphalt either, but perhaps Germany result was little disappointing for him.
I think the Fiesta has a better suspension, steering than the Hyundai to enable Tanak to push it harder than Paddon can push the Hyundai.
https://youtu.be/Lg2Q8d-TNPQ
Haydon Paddon is a very talented driver, with a very good potential.
I think Paddon - and other drivers wanting to challenge Ogier - most difficult task is to realize how extremely hard they have to work to catch up on Ogier, and how extremely hard Ogier worked to reach the place he is at now. And I am not talking about physical fitness, which I take as a given.
What does Paddon (and all the others) need to do to further improve on his very good talent:
As Lasse Kjus, the several times Olympic and World Champion Gold medal alpine skier said to me when I interviewed him:
"The best athletes are those that even after a victory, dare to look in the mirror to focus 100% on finding faults and weaknesses, and endure extreme amounts of pain to better these."
It is very good that Paddond goes to France to drive with a rally tutor, but if Paddon really wants to improve on tarmac (which I think he has a very good potential to do) this - and all other aspects he needs to improve - needs to be done with a certain level of frequency.
The way the brain learns is trough introduction and repetition. Whiteout repetition it is very difficult to pogramme new ways of doing things (some repetition can also come trough visualization).
On a rally/in a race, the stress levels are so high that You will not "rise to the acation" and do the new things You have learned, but "fall to Your level of competence" and revert to the old ways of doing things, this is something learned trough experience by the Special Forces around the world.
Paddon is strong on what he has done the most, and that is fast gravel rallies with a low grade of inputs per minute.
To beat Ogier he needs to get an accurate view of where You gain and loose time, and be able to do that also when the roads/surfaces becomes more technical. And for this You need to train a lot. But training/practising does not only need to be in a rally car, it can be:
- Watching inboards and outboards
- Driving go carts
- Driving a regular road car on regular roads to program a new line/new lines
- Driving UTVs
- Etc etc
- And to develop a pace notes system where all this can be incorporated, and practice this.
So how many hours a week?
If all the training is done in the correct direction, with correct tutoring, and always challenging the comfort zone in a lesser or larger degree:
- 20 hours of driving related training a week
- 20 hours of pace notes training a week
On top of this comes the physical training, and off course the competitions, wich should not count as training.
So what do Paddon and the other drivers need to do to motivate them self to do this?
- Firtsly, if they are not motivated in the outset to do this, they should conclude on that they will never beat Ogier over a season.
- If they are motivated, but struggle when times are tough (as all do), they should hang a picture of a smiling Ogier in their bathroom, in their gym, in their car, in their bedroom and in all other places they are a lot, and know that an hour of missed training is an hour missed in the race to wipe that smirk of Ogiers face.
Paddon has potential, no doubt about that. Lets just hope that he doesn't fall in the same trap as everybody else, taking to lightly on how much work, effort, and pain You have to endure to beat Ogier.
i agree with you. Tänak has better raw speed, i actually think that Tänak is one of the fastest or fastest in raw speed but like you said Paddon at the moment seems to be more clever and mature. The other thing which speaks for Paddon is that he has experienced co-driver while Raigo is having his first year in a WRC car. Nevertheless both havent shined after their mega performances after Sardinia and Poland respectively, they have been setting some great stage times but have had some set-up issues and so on.
But these two guys are the future in WRC IMO. Every rally i'm rooting for both of them.
I think he is already doing this kind of work.
You will need public roads and circuits 40 hours per day all days, it is a bit difficult. Don't you think?
But how about his pace notes? I'm curious to know what you think about his actual notes. I think they are a bit poor...
I think Ogiers face will be demotivational rather than the contrary. ;)
I was expecting one comment by you Est, and I was pretty sure you didn't agree about my view on Tanak but I see you've been more "honest" than I thought. I, for example, I root for Latvala and I'm not "clear headed" when it comes to judge him. :)
I just don't believe you when you say you root for both of them: I'm sure you like Paddon but if Tanak is battling against him you will have no doubt about who support. ;)
Of course im supporting Tänak more if they are battling against each other, thats natural, but im a fan of both of them and waiting that one of them will be troubling Ogier one more time this season and all the way next year.
Firstly: No its not a problem because the public road thing You can do in traffic. And a lot of the driving/visualization etc dont demand rally stage quality roads.
Secondly: In my mind his pace notes are to simple, and they make it very hard work to drive fast on technical stages. The gradings etc seems okay, but he doesn´t have the extra info needed. Especially radius and apex point strategy. If he developed his pace notes system, he could have a lot of speed for "free" on technical stages, and he could be a lot safer on the fast stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86i3PhVkEyc
For those who have not yet seen it, here is a bit more on the background of Hayden
Since Sardinia he has added a gear number to his pace notes (which is after the Youtube Video)
I think his pace notes are nice and simple, he sets fast times on stages that are new, I remember reading the difference between Solbergs notes and Loebs notes was Solbergs were much longer, and Loeb did fairly well?
But I know jack about notes so im probably wrong :)
Being brought up on New Zealand rallies Hayden and John both are used to competing in "Blind events" that is on stages without any form of recce or notes as they are strictly forbidden on most events in the South Island.
In the North Island many events use Jemba stage notes but again without any form of recce permitted.
For the NZ Rally Championship events Jemba stage notes are available plus a one pass recce is permitted and many take this opportunity to write their own notes.
A number who write their own notes then spend countless hours on the night before the rally viewing in car footage and checking their notes by this method.
Perhaps this is where Hayden and John have a slight advantage when on new stages.
It is only on the FIA events that a two pass recce is permitted.
No, Tänak definetely has a long way to go with his raw speed. It's versatility that matters and he is nowhere near the pace in slow and twisty gravel events and on tarmac. A lot to learn, specially mental training would be big help. At some point I thought that Tänak has the upper hand on Paddon, but atm seems that Paddon is making it slow and steady, but improving all the time. Tänak shone only in Poland, the event which had more like estonian roads, benefiting the lack of knowledge by experienced drivers and taking huuuuuuuuge risks - basically overdriving the car. He was lucky that time around, but you could clearly see what damage the overdriving has done to his reputation. I'm not wearing estonian glasses, so this statement is honest and not filled with patriotism. I'm not a patriotic person :)
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Watching the footage of Tanak in Poland he was very fast but every corner there was a potential crash coming.
What I like about Paddon is he has a plan and is actually executing his plan. Listening to Colin the voice of rally previously he has said the two hardest workers in the field are Neuville and Paddon.
I also think Paddon is one of the neatest/tidiest and most accurate drivers in the field, I remember watching a WRC round a few years ago when Paddon was in the Skoda, standing at a corner there were two drivers who took the widest line into a corner, hit the apex perfectly and drove away the cleanest, that was Paddon and Loeb. I'm not comparing the two as the cars are different etc (and one is Loeb and the other has a long way to go) but looking at the tyre marks on the road you can tell if smooth is fast these two were head and shoulders above. The worst was Ken Block (we laughed that he needed an aircraft hanger to aim for as his lines were so bad) closely followed by Henning Solberg and Latvala. But then that was a few years ago.
@HaydenPaddon
Everyday is a school day! Really informative day at the track today with @Nico_Bernardi__ refining Tarmac driving
https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/sta...80763324227584
Nicolas Bernardi - that is a name I have not heard in a while.
Last seen in the WRC in a....
That would make a good quiz question ;)
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile....colas-Bernardi
Somehow I don't agree with that. I have seen Paddon several times on gravel (Finland, Poland) and his trademark always was aggressive driving using sideways and putting car in oversteering. Judging by this year results he starts to change his driving style probably. Without that it's not possible for him to create decent results.
Clean and tidy doesn't mean you should not be sideway when needed. And yes, he is not perfect and has still long way to go but I think he is in the right path