Ecclestone: Less rubber on track

Apparently Bernard Ecclestone was talking to Auto Motor un Sport and suggested that organisers would clean the track surface before race on sunday to get rid of the rubber stuck on the racing line.

He also would like to se harder tyre compounds.

The gist of these changes would be to allow more passing opportunities by removing the clean line making it easier to use more of the track.

IMO it could work in the early parts of the race but would make passing just as hard it's now in the later part of the race.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by janneppi

Apparently Bernard Ecclestone was talking to Auto Motor un Sport and suggested that organisers would clean the track surface before race on sunday to get rid of the rubber stuck on the racing line.

He also would like to se harder tyre compounds.

The gist of these changes would be to allow more passing opportunities by removing the clean line making it easier to use more of the track.

IMO it could work in the early parts of the race but would make passing just as hard it's now in the later part of the race.

---

It ties in with what Trulli's been saying about graining on grooved tyres - the graining generating the marbles.

Worth a try, I would say. But hard slicks would suit some teams more than others...

I think this is something they should have been doing long before now. Really, considering how big the sport it and how much money is spent, the track should be cleaned each day or at least before the race on sunday.

Well , duh , Bernie .
I walked the Montreal track in '04 , and was amazed at the amount of marbles on the surface , some of which looked like they had been there since the inaugural event .
Cleaning the track , simply so it can all be utilized , should , in my opinion , be job #1 for the organizers . One pass around the track for a herd of sweeper/sucker trucks before the F1 guys take to the track in each stage of the event weekend should not be too hard to manage , and ensure that the whole track could be used .

Reducing the track to one lane does not promote passing .


As for tire compounds , I want to see one really hard compound slick , and one rain tire .
No choices . Here's your tire . Deal with it .
Get the best you can get out of it .

I'm with Bernie here , solidly on both counts .

My two cents - I think a simple way to achieve harder compound tyres would be to ban refuelling, maintain the current pit lane speed limits, and have a NASCAR-type ruling (the only time I'll ever use those words!) limiting the number of people that can be working on a car, so that say only two crew members can be responsible for changing all four tyres.

This way, without silly grooves, the even sillier one-tyre ruling (BS by name, BS by nature), or the open-to-interpretation no "tyre stops" rule of '05 (punctures??) tyre manufacturer(s) will find it prudent to build harder compounds - because softer tyres that require more frequent (lengthy) pit stops will not be advantageous over a race distance.

Of course - then there is the school of thought that tyres need to have MORE grip, and trim the downforce to aid racing, something which I don't necessarily disagree with...

You have to be very careful with compounds. Too hard a compound and you will end up with more marbles and graining! With a very hard compound there could be more sliding and wheelspin resulting in the overheating of the tires. I am sure the engineers would sort it out in time but one compound would not work at all tracks because of temp. and surface construction. No matter what you do there is a catch and sometimes a real surprise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Easy Drifter

You have to be very careful with compounds. Too hard a compound and you will end up with more marbles and graining! With a very hard compound there could be more sliding and wheelspin resulting in the overheating of the tires. I am sure the engineers would sort it out in time but one compound would not work at all tracks because of temp. and surface construction. No matter what you do there is a catch and sometimes a real surprise.

---

Of course , Drifter , you'd put out skins that were as far from being prone to graining as is possible , but having them cope on the same tires is more the point .
Avoiding that graining is part of the game , and having to do just that , from Austria to Bahrain , would show some skill on the part of both the engineer and the driver .

It shouldn't be easy . It's F1 , for crying out loud .
I want them to have trouble managing the tires .

Picking up some 3 kg rubber from asphalt may become essential for a champion. ;)

Harder tyres + huge slicks = good for racing.

I remember the First ever Hungarian GP,
The then Communist Government, had the Army Sweep the track after end of every day’s practice.

The teams and Drivers complained about the no ruber on the racing line causing the tyres to Blister and the track taking most of the day to grip up!
So I hate to say it but Bernie maybe on to something here.
Who can look after the Tyres the best over each Stint.
I prefer no Tyre Stops, it user to also mark of a good driver who could go fast, look after his whole car, and come from further down the grid, Pole Was never a certainty for a win as much as it is now!

I think that it will generate more overtaking my would'nt there be more the risk of someone crashing heavily.

I'm for real slicks, one soft one hard relative to normal ambient temps' at each track.
Surface condition should not really play apart in which tire's are presented IMHO.
I love pit stop strategy, and with Brawn back in the game,
I would like to see if he could pull off some of the same (although to a lesser degree) magic he did at Ferrari.
Without TC and (relatively) soft tire's true driving skill will win the day
as many drivers will have trouble managing tires even on a two stopper.
Plus there is speed comparable to what has been the helix of the sport (v10+tire war)
Opinions are worth what you pay for them! I'm out of here chief!

There's no 'one rule fits all' here as regards tyre wear...gripping or graining...my experience and understanding of graining is that it happens when there isn't much grip on a 'green' (or swept) track surface...The tyres surface is scrubbed by sliding instead of gripping. e.g. If the car is understeering it pushes the outside front tyre sideways scrubbing off rolls of rubber creating the dreaded marbles!

The better handling cars e.g. Ferrari's and McLarens seem to find grip regardless of the surface condition. A lesser handling car only starts working (gripping) when the track surface 'evolves' during the weekend or race as their tyres gain grip on the surface rubber.
Without the confidence that the car is going to grip one would have thought that the driver would be 'less' likely to try and overtake. Therefore the only overtaking we might see in the early part of a (dry) race will be from the better handling cars. However as the track 'rubbers in' the track will come to all the lesser handling cars too (if their lucky).

From now on without TC, one would image that tyrewear would increase and consequently deposit even more rubber on the track...which isn't going to get swept off during a race (unless it rains).

The problem isnt how hard the compound of the tyres is. Gary Anderson touched on this in his article in Autosport the other week, that the balance between how much of the grip from tyres is produced mechanicly and chemicaly needs to shift towards being more mechanicle, reducing the amount of rubber going down and reducing the chance of graining as well.

I like the idea of a clean track and minimal marbles. The marbles are tough to prevent when there is a tire war. But with one supplier, I'm sure they could make a non-marbling tire. If drivers complain about a lack of grip.....so much the better!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by V12

My two cents - I think a simple way to achieve harder compound tyres would be to ban refuelling, maintain the current pit lane speed limits, and have a NASCAR-type ruling (the only time I'll ever use those words!) limiting the number of people that can be working on a car, so that say only two crew members can be responsible for changing all four tyres.

This way, without silly grooves, the even sillier one-tyre ruling (BS by name, BS by nature), or the open-to-interpretation no "tyre stops" rule of '05 (punctures??) tyre manufacturer(s) will find it prudent to build harder compounds - because softer tyres that require more frequent (lengthy) pit stops will not be advantageous over a race distance.

Of course - then there is the school of thought that tyres need to have MORE grip, and trim the downforce to aid racing, something which I don't necessarily disagree with...

---

:up:

I like the direction of your thinking. I dislike the idea of banning stops/changes, because it leads to problems like Raikkonen's last lap accident in 2005. In fact, my choice would be to not ban refueling. Just limit fuel flow speed on the rig so that a full fuel stop carries a signficant penalty; keep with your limit on the number of crew allowed to work on the car during a stop; and possibly ban refueling and tire changes at the same stop. Then let the teams search for the balance between quicker laps and less time in the pits.

Regarding tires, in addition to slicks I would allow wider tires and wider tracks - together with measures to limit downforce. On compounds, I don't know enough to have an opinion.

ClarkFan

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClarkFan

:up:

I like the direction of your thinking. I dislike the idea of banning stops/changes, because it leads to problems like Raikkonen's last lap accident in 2005. In fact, my choice would be to not ban refueling. Just limit fuel flow speed on the rig so that a full fuel stop carries a signficant penalty; keep with your limit on the number of crew allowed to work on the car during a stop; and possibly ban refueling and tire changes at the same stop. Then let the teams search for the balance between quicker laps and less time in the pits.

Regarding tires, in addition to slicks I would allow wider tires and wider tracks - together with measures to limit downforce. On compounds, I don't know enough to have an opinion.

ClarkFan

---

None of the suggestions really enhance the possibility of real racing, unless carbon brakes are outlawed along with major aero changes. Otherwise eliminating or limiting pit stops just means a couple of passes for the lead next year for the whole season (if we are lucky)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

None of the suggestions really enhance the possibility of real racing, unless carbon brakes are outlawed along with major aero changes. Otherwise eliminating or limiting pit stops just means a couple of passes for the lead next year for the whole season (if we are lucky)

---

If the old grey matter serves me correctly, when he was driving for Williams, didn't JV run an FWxx with steel brakes, and it was declared that, with minimal development, they would be as efficient as carbon brakes.......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SGWilko

If the old grey matter serves me correctly, when he was driving for Williams, didn't JV run an FWxx with steel brakes, and it was declared that, with minimal development, they would be as efficient as carbon brakes.......

---

Weeeel we certainly would NOT want that.....(but maybe it does explain the steady downslide of JV--it was not traction control but those carbon brakes he had to use after Williams...... :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

None of the suggestions really enhance the possibility of real racing, unless carbon brakes are outlawed along with major aero changes.

---

Sure, I'd love to see those changes, too. Why stop when you are on a roll? ;)

Clarkfan

P.S. But aero is probably more important than carbon brakes. Less downforce => lower g-forces in braking => longer braking zones=> outbraking chances. Carbon brakes mainly reduce brake fade.

I think I suggested this many years ago but received no response. In the scheme of things, the cost is minimal as the sweepers can be hired from the road making Contractors and/or Council street sweepers can do the job. AS these sweepers can travel at around 10 mph, the fleet can do a couple of sweeps in less than three quarters of an hour. This would also clear the track of dust and sand on certain tracks like Bahrein.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

I think I suggested this many years ago but received no response. In the scheme of things, the cost is minimal as the sweepers can be hired from the road making Contractors and/or Council street sweepers can do the job. AS these sweepers can travel at around 10 mph, the fleet can do a couple of sweeps in less than three quarters of an hour. This would also clear the track of dust and sand on certain tracks like Bahrein.

---

It's done daily at the Bahrain circuit.

At those sandy tracks like Bahrain and Qatar of motogp and any next coming Arab tracks, sweeping the track from dust and sands before the race commenced is to minimize any risk may cause the tyres lose the grip and endanger the drivers, let alone the riders.

Any tracks must be sterile from foreign matter after accidents happened and have caused rubbish or leakage of the lubricant at the track. Cleaning up rubber from the track might happen naturally with rain that could be effective for the first day of the race, while in the multiple races seem it wouldn't be easy as it has strong adhesive that make it easy get stuck with the asphalt.

However as it has strong cohesion also, those rubber could re-stuck on the tyres while the race is running, couldn't it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

I think I suggested this many years ago but received no response. In the scheme of things, the cost is minimal as the sweepers can be hired from the road making Contractors and/or Council street sweepers can do the job. AS these sweepers can travel at around 10 mph, the fleet can do a couple of sweeps in less than three quarters of an hour. This would also clear the track of dust and sand on certain tracks like Bahrein.

---

To make it more interesting, replace the safety car with track sweepers! A bit slow, but the restart will be on a nice, clean surface! (Not to mention that all the carbon fibre debris will be gone)