Ahh Bernie, The Sequel

Ecclestone, who used to run former champions Brabham, is fuming that the sport's bright new star lost out unnecessarily while the monosyllabic Finn became champion.

He added: "If he hadn't called Hamilton in for that silly low fuel and soft tyres stint he could have won the championship.

"He made no time on the road and lost 25 seconds making the stop. If he had only lost 15 seconds he would have been fourth”
"I feel sorry for Lewis after his performances this year as a rookie. Raikkonen is champion. I just hope he starts talking more."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/motors...9520-20005386/

How can the top man in the sports ownership, and promotion, who by definition should not be second guessing a team principle’s strategy, be allowed to. Especially when Hamilton’s own deficiencies put Ron (whose own number 1 objective was to bring Hamilton home with the WDC). in the position to try what indicators before the race suggested this short stint on the soft’s, would pay dividends by allowing LH minimal time on soft’s, which up until the latter stages of the race data indicated prolonged time on the s'softs to be a big disadvantage. It was only after the race that drivers confirmed that the soft’s performed better than expected after surface further rubbered in thus limiting graining. There seems to be no limit, or boundary Bernie won't cross.

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Originally Posted by Tazio

Ecclestone, who used to run former champions Brabham, is fuming that the sport's bright new star lost out unnecessarily while the monosyllabic Finn became champion.

He added: "If he hadn't called Hamilton in for that silly low fuel and soft tyres stint he could have won the championship.

"He made no time on the road and lost 25 seconds making the stop. If he had only lost 15 seconds he would have been fourth”
"I feel sorry for Lewis after his performances this year as a rookie. Raikkonen is champion. I just hope he starts talking more."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/motors...9520-20005386/

How can the top man in the sports ownership, and promotion, who by definition should not be second guessing a team principle’s strategy, be allowed to. Especially when Hamilton’s own deficiencies put Ron (whose own number 1 objective was to bring Hamilton home with the WDC). in the position to try what indicators before the race suggested this short stint on the soft’s, would pay dividends by allowing LH minimal time on soft’s, which up until the latter stages of the race data indicated prolonged time on the s'softs to be a big disadvantage. It was only after the race that drivers confirmed that the soft’s performed better than expected after surface further rubbered in thus limiting graining. There seems to be no limit, or boundary Bernie won't cross.

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Nothing new really. It was like this the whole season.

Bernie was, is and always will be.....an idiot :(

He's entitled to his opinion. But I'd say this to him:

Tough. :D

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Originally Posted by Tazio

How can the top man in the sports ownership, and promotion, who by definition should not be second guessing a team principle’s strategy, be allowed to.

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Because he owns F1 and can!! Bernie has responsibility for the commericial aspects of F1 and the interest that Hamilton has generated is clear for everyone to see.

Listening to Bernie whenever he is interviewed by Martin Brundle on the grid, it's clear his words are carefully chosen. When asked the same question at different times he frequently gives a different answer just, apparently, for the hell of it. He's a smart operator.

This particular article comes from the Daily Mirror. A British tabloid not reknowned for its insightful F1 coverage. Bernie's comments are designed to suit a particular audience who will lap up the headline and come back to watch more next year.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Because he owns F1 and can!! Bernie has responsibility for the commericial aspects of F1...

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That's to different things.
In fact he does not own F1, only the name.
F1 is based on teams that Bernie does not own, even though he thinks so.

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Originally Posted by ioan

That's to different things.
In fact he does not own F1, only the name.
F1 is based on teams that Bernie does not own, even though he thinks so.

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Maybe that's what's wrong with F1. One man having far too much power and influence. It could be said to be unhealthy. Yes I would've preferred Hamilton to win the championship, but great for Kimi. So what if he doesn't speak, tough, deal with it. His job first and foremost is to drive quicker than anybody else. If there's one thing about modern sport and F1 in particular it's all this image and hype. Let the action do the talking,....

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Originally Posted by ioan

F1 is based on teams that Bernie does not own, even though he thinks so.

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That's incorrect. F1 is the FIA Formula 1 World Championship, not the teams that take part in that championship.

Bernie doesn't seem to understand what makes a personality.

In his mind talking = personality.

He completely misses the point that being a mute, but fast Finn is very much the personality and even a stereotype, that many people want to see. If he was different, it may be that he was less popular.

If anything, an image consultintant should exaggerate Kimi's coolness and silent nature rather than to try to diminish it. He should be encouraged to keep his own personality and not to change it.

So Bernie got it all wrong...

Ever wonder why F1 is called a circus? Ever wonder who the spruiker is and what he does?
Ever wonder why Brenie is rich and we arn't?

Try to figure out what he is doing when he sprouts this jibberish!! The guy might appear silly sometimes but he is no fool.

Valve and Arrows, you are quite right — though he did seem incredibly, even embarrassingly, muddled while talking to Brundle.

In addition, his view of Raikkonen as a media 'figure' compared to Hamilton is nothing controversial. Loads of people share this opinion. Some people are good in front of the cameras or microphones and some aren't. That's just a fact.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

....
Ever wonder why Brenie is rich and we arn't?
...

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I think that Bernie is rich, because being rich has been the number one on his agenda.

I'm not rich, because becoming rich does not make it to my top 10 - things to do list.

Very simple.

Material wealth does not - however - make Bernie right or wrong.

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Originally Posted by Tazio

Ecclestone, who used to run former champions Brabham, is fuming that the sport's bright new star lost out unnecessarily while the monosyllabic Finn became champion.

He added: "If he hadn't called Hamilton in for that silly low fuel and soft tyres stint he could have won the championship.

"He made no time on the road and lost 25 seconds making the stop. If he had only lost 15 seconds he would have been fourth”
"I feel sorry for Lewis after his performances this year as a rookie. Raikkonen is champion. I just hope he starts talking more."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/motors...9520-20005386/

How can the top man in the sports ownership, and promotion, who by definition should not be second guessing a team principle’s strategy, be allowed to. Especially when Hamilton’s own deficiencies put Ron (whose own number 1 objective was to bring Hamilton home with the WDC). in the position to try what indicators before the race suggested this short stint on the soft’s, would pay dividends by allowing LH minimal time on soft’s, which up until the latter stages of the race data indicated prolonged time on the s'softs to be a big disadvantage. It was only after the race that drivers confirmed that the soft’s performed better than expected after surface further rubbered in thus limiting graining. There seems to be no limit, or boundary Bernie won't cross.

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I think Bernie is getting old.

He doesn't understand that people are different.
Kimi is an intelligent and honest guy but that seams not to be enough to this old grey man with the Beatles hear. That time has gone Bernie! - We are living in an other world to day, there e.g. spying very confidential material from a competing team is a serious thing. THAT should Bernie criticise and not speak b*** s*** about an honest and popular guy like Kimi.

But there is nothing wrong with his view of Raikkonen and McLaren's strategy. He is saying what a lot of people think.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

But there is nothing wrong with his view of Raikkonen and McLaren's strategy. He is saying what a lot of people think.

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McLaren's strategy?
When they was using this (780 sides = comprehensive) confidential material from Ferrari? Do you really think there is nothing wrong with that? I still think Bernie should be critical against that - not Kimi.. I think he is very “understanding” when we speak McLaren and the spying scandal ..

Money, money - that's everything to Bernie Ecclestone..

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Originally Posted by jas123f1

McLaren's strategy?
When they was using this (780 sides = comprehensive) confidential material from Ferrari? Do you really think there is nothing wrong with that? I still think Bernie should be critical against that - not Kimi.. I think he is very “understanding” when we speak McLaren and the spying scandal ..

Money, money - that's everything to Bernie Ecclestone..

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I was talking about his comments regarding Hamilton's race strategy in Brazil, as mentioned in the quote at the start of this thread.

F1's not a sport, it's a circus. Bernie has, at least, proven that this year.

I find it hilarious really, the whole thing.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I was talking about his comments regarding Hamilton's race strategy in Brazil, as mentioned in the quote at the start of this thread.

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Sure, but it's the same old Bernie who is speaking.

I think it's good for the sport that McLaren didn't get any title this year because they were spaying Ferrari and I think Bernie should be of the same opinion. And as a former McLaren fan i have to also say I'm very disappointed to their behaviour this season .. (fy fan..)

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Originally Posted by Juppe

Bernie doesn't seem to understand what makes a personality.

In his mind talking = personality.

He completely misses the point that being a mute, but fast Finn is very much the personality and even a stereotype, that many people want to see. If he was different, it may be that he was less popular.

If anything, an image consultintant should exaggerate Kimi's coolness and silent nature rather than to try to diminish it. He should be encouraged to keep his own personality and not to change it.

So Bernie got it all wrong...

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Yes! If one is to comcern themselves with such things, accentuate the positive. Kimi's English is distinctly his. I love it when he uses the phrases like "I think so it is" as opposed to proper English "I think it is"

I just watched the post race interview. Kimi was very articulate in this ad lib session. Kimi has a better command of the English language than Massa does! So what! What real racing fan actually gives a $#!+?

AndyRAC said
"Maybe that's what's wrong with F1. One man having far too much power and influence. It could be said to be unhealthy. Yes I would've preferred Hamilton to win the championship, but great for Kimi. So what if he doesn't speak, tough, deal with it. His job first and foremost is to drive quicker than anybody else. If there's one thing about modern sport and F1 in particular it's all this image and hype. Let the action do the talking,...."

I also think so!

Becoming World Champion does not meant that you have to become a corporate machine.

Well done Kimi, I am so pleased for you even though i wanted a Hamiton victory I am REALLY happy that Kimi is WC. He deserves it and while monosyllabic he is his own man. The others grow bum fluff to try and show they are there own men although I did laugh when Alonso tuned up unshaven half way through the season to annoy Ron.

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Originally Posted by Tazio

Yes! If one is to comcern themselves with such things, accentuate the positive. Kimi's English is distinctly his. I love it when he uses the phrases like "I think so it is" as opposed to proper English "I think it is"

I just watched the post race interview. Kimi was very articulate in this ad lib session. Kimi has a better command of the English language than Massa does! So what! What real racing fan actually gives a $#!+?

AndyRAC said
"Maybe that's what's wrong with F1. One man having far too much power and influence. It could be said to be unhealthy. Yes I would've preferred Hamilton to win the championship, but great for Kimi. So what if he doesn't speak, tough, deal with it. His job first and foremost is to drive quicker than anybody else. If there's one thing about modern sport and F1 in particular it's all this image and hype. Let the action do the talking,...."

I also think so!

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I agree with all of that, too. However, I still think it's wrong to criticise what Bernie said on this matter, given that (a) it is founded in fact, (b) his opinions are hardly outlandish, and (c) many people think exactly the same as he appears to.

Many people felt the same way as Hitler appeared to!

Bernard a it again?, Kinda funny to see, as Kimi it is one of the most beloved drivers in F1, even when he barely speaks to anyone, but he doesn't need to speak a lot to be popular, that's part of his charm. As for Bernard, man, you are such a box full of surprises.

PS. Bernie STFU for once.

Bernie is a very smart cookie. He started with nothing as a used car salesman. His ethics and antics may be a little questionable at times but he made F1 the huge success it is. Before Bernie it was stumbling along keeping the real fans semi happy but the general public knew from nothing. Bernie got F1 on international TV. Before Bernie some countries got to see Monaco but not much else. I do not like him or even like what F1 has become but he made it popular world wide and made the team owners very rich in the process, not to say he didn't profit even more.
I was in 2 F1 factories in the mid 70's. One was a rabbit warren of buildings in a scuzzy industrial mall. The F1 and 2 mechanics were let go at the end of the season and hired back at lower salaries to build the production race cars. One owner was Mad Max. The other 'factory' was a WW2 Quonset hut and the winter team was the team owner and 2 mechanics. There were part timers in the evenings.
I think we will see Kimi develop more public personality over time. Watch his eyes. There is a little twinkle there when he makes some of his comments.
A bit like Mika but not as noticeable. If you really listened to what Mika said and watched his eyes along with his sly grin he often was actually being funny in a very dry way. I think Kimi will develop the same way.

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Originally Posted by Easy Drifter

Bernie is a very smart cookie. He started with nothing as a used car salesman. His ethics and antics may be a little questionable at times but he made F1 the huge success it is. Before Bernie it was stumbling along keeping the real fans semi happy but the general public knew from nothing. Bernie got F1 on international TV. Before Bernie some countries got to see Monaco but not much else. I do not like him or even like what F1 has become but he made it popular world wide and made the team owners very rich in the process, not to say he didn't profit even more.
I was in 2 F1 factories in the mid 70's. One was a rabbit warren of buildings in a scuzzy industrial mall. The F1 and 2 mechanics were let go at the end of the season and hired back at lower salaries to build the production race cars. One owner was Mad Max. The other 'factory' was a WW2 Quonset hut and the winter team was the team owner and 2 mechanics. There were part timers in the evenings.
I think we will see Kimi develop more public personality over time. Watch his eyes. There is a little twinkle there when he makes some of his comments.
A bit like Mika but not as noticeable. If you really listened to what Mika said and watched his eyes along with his sly grin he often was actually being funny in a very dry way. I think Kimi will develop the same way.

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I think you just submitted a very interesting, thoughtful, and revealing post.
My view varies with yours only in that I dont think Kimi is uninteresting,
There is nothing wrong with his sense of humor!
And, when he says something you can pretty much believe it is the truth
(at least as far as he is informed, or cares)

Bernie understands the value of controversy. I think when the manufacturers were considering setting up their own rival series, Bernie was the one thing they didn't feel they could replace. So they are paying 60% of all F1 income for him!!!

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Originally Posted by passmeatissue

Bernie understands the value of controversy. I think when the manufacturers were considering setting up their own rival series, Bernie was the one thing they didn't feel they could replace. So they are paying 60% of all F1 income for him!!!

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What is the value of controvercy? If it is controversy for the sake of controversy,
it's bulls**t If it's controversy to insure that pedestrian fans have a level of understand they can relate to
than it is something that I'm going to guess the term for went out of vouge before you were even born,
It's Plastic!!

There are times when Bernie, like Max, should keep their opinions private, especially when they favor one team or driver.

Offcourse Bernie would like to have a champion with Eddie Ervines mouth who could drive a car, but a guy in his position should not take sides or favor anyone, his opinion is not the same as average spectators.
But good championships still comes by driving not by talking about driving.

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Originally Posted by Easy Drifter

I think we will see Kimi develop more public personality over time. Watch his eyes. There is a little twinkle there when he makes some of his comments.
A bit like Mika but not as noticeable. If you really listened to what Mika said and watched his eyes along with his sly grin he often was actually being funny in a very dry way. I think Kimi will develop the same way.

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Kimi seems to be kind of shy and uncomfortable in front of the cameras. Perhaps he'll open up more as time goes on. Remember, he came from McLaren where every word was to be accounted for. He is a lot more talkative in his Ferrari interviews.

Personally, I don't care if he is a great orator - I'd rather see him do his talking on the track!

Räikkönen looks like a popular champion, so I don't think Bernie should complain much.

That happens when you try to run a "sport" like a business, we as fans are guilty of trying so hard to look at this show as a mere sport..are we F1 fans extremely naive? or Bernie it's just being a pr!ck with people's champ, el Kimi?

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Originally Posted by OmarF1

That happens when you try to run a "sport" like a business, we as fans are guilty of trying so hard to look at this show as a mere sport..are we F1 fans extremely naive? or Bernie it's just being a pr!ck with people's champ, el Kimi?

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Intelligent fans can disseminate between the competition, and the spectacle.
I don't like it when so, and so says it’s for the good of the sport. Too vague!
You have the competition, which is, well the competition. Then you have the spectacle.
The spectacle can be many things. Say like a circus! A competition should never have
the word circus associated with its definition, Unless it The Gong Show

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Valve and Arrows, you are quite right — though he did seem incredibly, even embarrassingly, muddled while talking to Brundle.

In addition, his view of Raikkonen as a media 'figure' compared to Hamilton is nothing controversial. Loads of people share this opinion. Some people are good in front of the cameras or microphones and some aren't. That's just a fact.

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Anybody who heard Kimi's 'I was having a s**t' comment last year (if u didnt, youtube it for Brundles reaction alone) will know that this whole 'he doesnt speak and doesnt have a personality' line isnt strictly true. Kimi is in F1 to be the best, yeah theres the money n everything else, but he is good at alot of things and he chose F1 to race and to win. He doesnt feel the need to constantly bitch and moan about people, like many people he can say all that with a look. Away from the circuit, he is a different person, but at the track he is a professional, who is not going to bother having a war of words with anybody, he does his talking on the track. When he has something to say, he says it and when he doesnt, he doesnt.

Bernie should just get over it.

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There is nothing wrong with Kimi. I started posting years ago that Kim would be great because he was on a very steep learning curve. He is a great driver, and I have stated many times for the past 4 years that I thought Kimi was the fastest driver in F1.

However much we like Kimi, I have to admit that he is not a showman. For a start he is startingly honest in his opinions and this is very refreshing in a devious "sport" like F1.

Bernie is here to sell a show and make money. Many here won't remember hte days when cars were painted the respective colours of their countries and advertising was not permitted in F1. Times have changed - and we can argue to we are blue in the face whether it is for the good or vice versa. I can remember F1 cars used to have 1.5 litre engines producing 154 bhp.

Bernie is what he is - he makes money and some of it is spread among the teams. Nothing wrong with making money!! that's what he does now.

Bernie likes to have show ponies in his circus to add colour so he can fatten his bank account through higher TV ratings. The various controversies this year have certainly added to the publicity and thus increased ratings. Like it or not, that's what F1 is these days.

For me, I am thrilled that Kimi is the Champion, and I hope that he will win many more. But for the unreliability of McLarens and bad luck, Kimi should already have three championships by now.

Sorry for the rant, as some people seem to think Kimi is not my hero. But let's face the facts, KImi is not the showman that would fit neatly into Bernie's circus act.

I see nothing wrong with his opinion, in the end he's entitled to have is own one.

People in high places (like Bernie and Max) are entitled to have their opinions. However, when they vocalize those opinions, they often come back to bite them in the posterior!