Bubba gets it , Bernie doesn't .

I just watch my first Craftsman truck race the other day , and marvelled at a few things they seem to understand far and away better than Bernie , the marketting genius .

Bernie got closest to the model when the circus went to Indy , with Scott Speed on board . They ran most of the drivers across the stage , showing us personality and faces to relate with the helmet colours .
At the truck race , the drivers were all out there lined up , ready to qualify , and still yacking and joking with fans and engineers alike , mugging for pix , glad-handing the public .

Jacques got loads of accolades for his acheivements , and never once did I hear F1 denegrated during the whole telecast .
Both JPM and JV have lots to say about how the other drivers are respectful and welcoming , and how tight and controlled F1 is in comparison .

They even made a big deal of how Jacques has brought in an international sponsor with him in Sonax .

JPM was fast-tracked into the Cup show through the Busch series , but JV , after only his first race in Trucks , has been given the green to also race with the cup guys at Talledega on the Sunday .

Bubba gets it . Strike while the iron is hot .
They sign on Jacques at the moment that F1 reaches an all-time low in consumer confidence .


Bernie should be paying close attention here .
The public wants to have heroes with which they can identify , not frustrated whiners who must make constant excuses for why they can never be competitive .
They want to meet them .
They want to hear how they feel and react to situations on track from the heart , not the corporate speak manual .
They want to hear about all the drivers feeling they are in with a chance .

Jacques left because , in his own words , "I am done with F1 , and F1 is done with me ."

He left because of all the things of which the public complains .

F1 is out of touch .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I just watch my first Craftsman truck race the other day , and marvelled at a few things they seem to understand far and away better than Bernie , the marketting genius .

Bernie got closest to the model when the circus went to Indy , with Scott Speed on board . They ran most of the drivers across the stage , showing us personality and faces to relate with the helmet colours .
At the truck race , the drivers were all out there lined up , ready to qualify , and still yacking and joking with fans and engineers alike , mugging for pix , glad-handing the public .

Jacques got loads of accolades for his acheivements , and never once did I hear F1 denegrated during the whole telecast .
Both JPM and JV have lots to say about how the other drivers are respectful and welcoming , and how tight and controlled F1 is in comparison .

They even made a big deal of how Jacques has brought in an international sponsor with him in Sonax .

JPM was fast-tracked into the Cup show through the Busch series , but JV , after only his first race in Trucks , has been given the green to also race with the cup guys at Talledega on the Sunday .

Bubba gets it . Strike while the iron is hot .
They sign on Jacques at the moment that F1 reaches an all-time low in consumer confidence .


Bernie should be paying close attention here .
The public wants to have heroes with which they can identify , not frustrated whiners who must make constant excuses for why they can never be competitive .
They want to meet them .
They want to hear how they feel and react to situations on track from the heart , not the corporate speak manual .
They want to hear about all the drivers feeling they are in with a chance .

Jacques left because , in his own words , "I am done with F1 , and F1 is done with me ."

He left because of all the things of which the public complains .

F1 is out of touch .

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I will not contest a single thing you posted!
Never-the-less I prefer watching an F-1 race, with all it's +'s, and -'s!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tazio

I will not contest a single thing you posted!
Never-the-less I prefer watching an F-1 race, with all it's +'s, and -'s!

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Tazio , I prefer F1 , too .

It was damned hard to get used to , but I did it . I really did .

I am hoping they add about ten or twelve more road courses .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

The public wants to have heroes with which they can identify , not frustrated whiners who must make constant excuses for why they can never be competitive .

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And that is why it's good that JPM and JV left, no need for us F1 fans to hear them whine anymore. :p :

I think F1 is a superior sport to Nascar, all all the marketing nous and driver meet-and-greets in the world won't change my mind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janneppi

And that is why it's good that JPM and JV left, no need for us F1 fans to hear them whine anymore. :p :

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Nice balanced comment from a moderator . Thanks for that .

And , yes , I saw the smiley , but I don't think you wish to open that kind of debate .

This is about Bernie and Bubba .
I'll thank you to stay on topic .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans

I think F1 is a superior sport to Nascar, all all the marketing nous and driver meet-and-greets in the world won't change my mind.

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I agree , B3 , but it's about F1 becoming better .

F1's marketing strategy is to promote the championship as an elitist sport. the fact that billions of $ are spent each year in F1 shows that the marketing strategy is working.

A recent MotoGP bossiness forum actually concluded that the open for everyone paddock is actually bad for sponsors and suggested that a limited access MotoGP paddock similar to F1 would actually attract more sponsors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

This is about Bernie and Bubba .
I'll thank you to stay on topic .

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Oh come on, don't be so uptight, it's Friday. :)

The difference between bubba and Bernie is a couple of billions in finacial interest in manufacturers, sponsors and tv.
What works in a smaller environment might not work in F1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChrisS

F1's marketing strategy is to promote the championship as an elitist sport. the fact that billions of $ are spent each year in F1 shows that the marketing strategy is working.

A recent MotoGP bossiness forum actually concluded that the open for everyone paddock is actually bad for sponsors and suggested that a limited access MotoGP paddock similar to F1 would actually attract more sponsors.

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How is it bad for sponsors , Chris ?

Is it the elitist "pinnacle" tag that the limitted access promotes ?
If so , the idea is killing the racing , being that the reference moves more technical with every turn , and drivers become less important .

Now , we have F1 moving away from the pinnacle , dropping TC next year .
They've recognized that it hurts the racing .

Whereas JV had trouble with the Ferrari TC at Sauber , and struggled to change it , he's able to affect change instantly in a cup car or truck , and adapt his style to the series .
A good driver can make the difference .

In F1 , it's all about where you sit .
I suppose it is in Nascar as well , but it's not completely out of the question that a backmarker might run well .



Sure , F1 has it's sponsors , and loads of them , but they miss some basics .
For example , it's largely during cautions that they show commercials in the Truck series , at least .
Certainly , that works well because there are many , but the point is to maximize the actual race coverage , and the fans appreciate it .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janneppi

Oh come on, don't be so uptight, it's Friday. :)

The difference between bubba and Bernie is a couple of billions in finacial interest in manufacturers, sponsors and tv.
What works in a smaller environment might not work in F1.

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Smaller??

There are more drivers making 1,000,000 a year than in F1.

there are more drivers making 10 million a year than in f1, there are more drivers making 50 million a year than F1. While MS may have been at one time at the top of the chart for money, Dale Earnhardt was only slightly behind..............

Annual GROSS revenue from all you mention, puts F1 in the shade

Smaller environment? the entire USA economy and geographic size dwarfs the european market---ooopps I guess you mean to add in turkey and malaysia?? maybe China?? Do not make me laugh!!!!!!

F1 can not make it in the single largest mass market--the USA---it has trouble making it in great britain, the home of F1......

Now do I like nastycar---no

BUT

Is it more fun for folks to get to enjoy and have the access that they have compared to F1 snobbery for the common man? Yep.

And do you know how hard it is to get a pass to see the stuff up close and how much that it costs at a f1 race compared to nastycar?

Five years ago, it was 5k plus, assuming you qualified as being worthy, for a weekend pass to somewhere other than some distant grandstand..... :eek:

did I mention that the emperor has no clothes on......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Is it more fun for folks to get to enjoy and have the access that they have compared to F1 snobbery for the common man? Yep.

And do you know how hard it is to get a pass to see the stuff up close and how much that it costs at a f1 race compared to nastycar?

Five years ago, it was 5k plus, assuming you qualified as being worthy, for a weekend pass to somewhere other than some distant grandstand..... :eek:

did I mention that the emperor has no clothes on......

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None of these actually mean anything to me, since I'm not going to be bothred to watch F1 race live anytime soon, heck, I won't even pay for the 10Eur/month for live tv broadcast until something extraordinary happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Sure , F1 has it's sponsors , and loads of them , but they miss some basics .
For example , it's largely during cautions that they show commercials in the Truck series , at least .
Certainly , that works well because there are many , but the point is to maximize the actual race coverage , and the fans appreciate it .

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Simple answer really, nothing happens in F1 races during commercials. ;)
Well, nothing happens after the first lap really, but that's already been talked about for decade now so I won't go there.

;) Well, it's looking like NA$CAR's becoming a retirement home for F-1 racers... and also ex- champ car and Indy drivers.

Down side is... NA$CAR's TV ratings are falling !!!

:dozey: Max shot Formula 1 in the foot with the Indy FIAsco... it will be a while before U S promoters bring a F-1 race back to the States.

ALMS is looking stronger, especially in LMP2 and GT2... and there's talk about a new Trans Am series... running Mustangs, Carmaro's, and Challengers.

Maybe we will see a wide variety of series/cars over the next few years... which opens up driver seats, always a good thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

How is it bad for sponsors , Chris ?

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Here's the article

http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~0~id~146471.htm

page 2 is about the reasoning for an elitist paddock pleasing sponsors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janneppi

None of these actually mean anything to me, since I'm not going to be bothred to watch F1 race live anytime soon, heck, I won't even pay for the 10Eur/month for live tv broadcast until something extraordinary happens.

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weeelll Seems to prove what the original post was all about----seems f1 is becoming a tv only package.....and i don't watch it live, but tape it---save me mucho time, fast forward the commercials and most of the boring race.................leaves me to watch over and over Fa passing LH or LH passing kimi and even with that saves me a solid hour or so....and then there is the super dry boring post race interveiws of peter windsor with the boys all sitting there like they are some scientists discussing some archelogical dig at some dead and buried city like Troy and what the pottery looks like and its effect on Greek pottery......" when did you think you had the race won??" Kimi: "when I won the pole, and did not break down during the race...."

"What was the deciding point for the race? (answer by anyone else except winner) When I did not win pole, and driver x did, and then did not break during the race....."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChrisS

Here's the article

http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~0~id~146471.htm

page 2 is about the reasoning for an elitist paddock pleasing sponsors.

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It's kind of sad that they are so far removed from the great unwashed that are the fans , and they wish to be farther .
I remember going to the Indy race in 2000 , and nobody there seemed to know who the heck the title sponsor , SAP , was .
And , it really didn't seem to matter to them , as they made no attempt to let on at all , in terms of signage at the track .

Take Nascar seriously , as those who follow the Tide car , use Tide in the washer .

Big business SAP software is not for the masses . It's just about the money , not the race .

That's losing touch , and we , the great unwashed are starting to notice .

Why bother showing the masses the race at all ?
Close the paddock by closing the outside gates .
That much exclusivity should surely please the sponsors .

I don't get it, we complain all the time F1 is now more bussiness and less sport and now we say F1 is out of touch comparing to NASCAR, where everything is just bussiness?

Bags, it's great to see you again!

I'd agree that NASCAR is more people friendly and the venue and it's sponsors are focused at the common man. Having been to a couple of live NASCAR events I can tell you it's more than just the race. It's like one huge family reunion. An oval may look boring on TV but it allows the paying customer to see the entire race not just one straight or one corner. If Bags wants to put the binoculars on Jacques and watch him the entire race, he can do so. The thunder, vibration, and change in air pressure when the herd blows past where you are sitting is incredible. And in person, you can appreciate just how fast these guys are going.

For a pure, seat-of-the-pants, guts driver, NASCAR is an execellent venue and Jacques is doing well already.

I liked the spirit of Formula 1 and the technology developments that stem from it. I remember when wings first started appearing on the cars and there were some bizarre set ups then, the 6 wheel cars, fan cars, sliding skirts, etc. It made it all the more fun, interesting, and yes, the pinnacle. Max is killing all that. Bags is right, Max and Bernie need to wake up.

I agree with you Bags!! F1 is crap to the fans....Nascar races are great fun for 2-3 solid days.

I do love the technology and speed of F1 though. IMHO-> out of Speed, JV, and JPM; Monty is the only one with the talent for F1 driving. The other 2 have been 'relegated' to nascar.

Each type of racing has its own plusses and minuses. F1 is not fan friendly and often boring to watch, but a few good races a year make it worthwhile. NASCAR is all about crashes and smashes and that's fine, but it's not exactly high-tech.

I find myself being drawn toward the ALMS series more and more. I enjoy the action all over the track and the strategies that come into play when P1 & P2 cars have to deal with GT1 & GT2 cars while racing in their own class. If I tape an F1 race I usually watch it once. I can watch an ALMS race several times and not get bored.

With F1, the best video is the 2 hour highlights that are released at the end of the season - it cuts out all the boring processions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markabilly

weeelll Seems to prove what the original post was all about----seems f1 is becoming a tv only package.....

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Fortunately I don't have to worry about silly thing like proofs or backed up arguments, those are for people who were in their high school debate club, I'm here to have a chat with friends ands people i know over the interweb. ;)
F1 is and quite frankly should be focused on tv viewers over spectators, 350 million viewers confirm that every race weekend.

Quote:

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and i don't watch it live, but tape it---save me mucho time, fast forward the commercials and most of the boring race.................leaves me to watch over and over Fa passing LH or LH passing kimi and even with that saves me a solid hour or so....and then there is the super dry boring post race interveiws of peter windsor with the boys all sitting there like they are some scientists discussing some archelogical dig at some dead and buried city like Troy and what the pottery looks like and its effect on Greek pottery......" when did you think you had the race won??" Kimi: "when I won the pole, and did not break down during the race...."

"What was the deciding point for the race? (answer by anyone else except winner) When I did not win pole, and driver x did, and then did not break during the race....."

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I can't stand taped races, if it's happened already i have to know the result as soon as I can.

NASCAR is more deliberately a spectacle but F1 is more about the race and the competitors although decisions are increasingly being made for the benefit of spectators. I want to see a true sport well presented not something that's been manipulated to appeal to me more. Yes investigate ways to improve overtaking and make races more unpredictable but not to the extent where it becomes meaningless but don't bend the rules to appeal to the public.

My response to this thread didn'tgo through for some reason...and now I am bored to type it again...

Just like I am bored to hear/talk about Nascar and Craftsmen or whatever crap roundy stuff that comes on TV every week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

, it's largely during cautions that they show commercials in the Truck series , at least .
Certainly , that works well because there are many , but the point is to maximize the actual race coverage , and the fans appreciate it .

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Sorry to re quote this, but watched latter part of the race on Speed channel(don't ask why ;) )
It was truly horrible, ads seemed to be shown every ten minutes where as Finnish broadcast has easily twenty minutes of gap between them and are shorter, I can't for the life of me understand how people can follow such horrible F1 coverage. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janneppi

Sorry to re quote this, but watched latter part of the race on Speed channel(don't ask why ;) )
It was truly horrible, ads seemed to be shown every ten minutes where as Finnish broadcast has easily twenty minutes of gap between them and are shorter, I can't for the life of me understand how people can follow such horrible F1 coverage. :(

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I told you it ain't all that noticeable or bad when you tape it :D

If you want to know what happened, just check in about the last ten minutes of the race, then rewind the tape and watch it as you see fit

After all it is all all about TV now......