X games RALLY? Was it?

How could they call this a Rally? Have i missed something of have the people of the USA re-invented the sport? Looked like an SSS to me....and a poor one at that!

I somehow dont think the FIA would approve of this........ ;)

http://www.rally-america.com/xgames_...618&gallery=56

The crossover strikes me as a little dangerous, as was the stage end...... cars could have easily smacked into one another. Anyone know the total stage mileage? About 5??

I appreciate that is was billed as 'Rally Car Racing Super Special' when all's said and done this is the worst attempt at a rally ever seen! If they need to do that to draw fans then they might aswel not bother! As for Mcrae doing it, he should be ashamed. Oh and he only finshed 5th.

The jump was cool, bit xtreme, but it was the X-Games. The finish was more JacK-Ass or Dukes of Hazards than real Rally, and let the whole show down.

They should clean up the course layout, especially the finish, keep the jump but lose the cross over element.

What chance of a Super Special at the end every round of the Rally America Championship? Well a slightly less extreme version.

Yeah, the finish area was wack for sure. That whole crossover business is only going to get bigger until somone gets hurt. The rally section of the Xgames really looks like a field day for the accountants as the lawyers wait around for ambulances. :\

There is already a thread about x-games here, if you whatched the show they did point out that they where not doing a rally but a sss. Why use rally cars only in the forest, like with a dirt bike you have lots of different diseplins FMX, motocross, enduro and supermotard. Why not do something new, it's not like it's hurting the interest for rally is it?

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Originally Posted by SUBARUNORWAY1

. Why not do something new, it's not like it's hurting the interest for rally is it?

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Errr, yeh it is really. Anyone who doesn't know what rallying is will believe what they see! I just think its another way of North Americans having their own sport, 'Rally Racing', and not having a go at the real deal! Even though i like neither sport, it seems like Rugby and American Football.....steal an idea and invent your own sport that nobody else plays, so that your always the worlds best!

This show was simialr to doing white water rafting in a swimming pool, just so lazy people can see it eaiser!

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Originally Posted by Doon

How could they call this a Rally?


I appreciate that is was billed as 'Rally Car Racing Super Special'

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What are you trying to say here? It was, or it wasnt?

They didnt call it a rally. It was billed as a Rally Super Special, and even more shortly, X Games Rally Car.

Which, even by European terms, it was.

Last year, it was a rally, with actual stages days prior, topped by a Super Special finale. If you actually watched the coverage, the announcer did, on numerous occasions distinguish stage rallying from this SSS by highlighting the ongoing Rally America National Championship.

If you scoff at R-A's rendition of a SSS, I urge you to take a closer look at the Acropolis, Cardiff and Hagfors SSS's.

Keep in mind, this is all done simply to raise awareness, a taster, of what real rallying is, how skilled the drivers are, how tough the cars are, and how just one small mistake, can ruin your day, just like on a real rally.

Colin McRae Rally x games 13 2007 rolls car for 2nd time !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_fDGFvfrW4

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Originally Posted by Doon

Errr, yeh it is really. Anyone who doesn't know what rallying is will believe what they see! I just think its another way of North Americans having their own sport, 'Rally Racing', and not having a go at the real deal! Even though i like neither sport, it seems like Rugby and American Football.....steal an idea and invent your own sport that nobody else plays, so that your always the worlds best!

This show was simialr to doing white water rafting in a swimming pool, just so lazy people can see it eaiser!

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So here it comes the conspiracy theory that americans make their own sports so anyone else plays it and they ALWAYS win right? Im not Pro american or anything but god this sounds crazy(in that case british do it too! who plays cricket? no one! but they dont win anyways! (with all due respect to british criket players of course))

what about basketball? china, spain, Grece, Argentina and other countries now have teams strong enough to beat the americans

Baseball? the same thing!! Cuba, Venezuela, Puerto Rico or even Mexico have teams strong enough to beat them sometimes!!

American football not yet but hey the NFL(football league) is full of foreigners too, japanese guys play there now!

So now this "Rally racing" in the X games is an other atempt to do the same again?? yeah right...

I really really think this is good for the sport in anyways, more interest = more money = more events =more drivers = more everything I think the Xgames is a good platform for people to start attending to rally America events! I f you go to this stadium and you have never seen rally before you may say "wow this is cool, but it only happens once a year I want more of this thing!" so you go to a rally america event and get to know a little more about pure rally!!
or maybe your too lazy to go to an event and you make a google search of "rally" or maybe in youtube, what u get? WRC, group B, solberg, loeb, marcus, maybe a political rally too, but i bet that only like 1% of the result will contain anything about xgames

so dont say that this is an evil attempt to deviate interest from pure rally and that will affect the sport!

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Originally Posted by Doon

Errr, yeh it is really. Anyone who doesn't know what rallying is will believe what they see! I just think its another way of North Americans having their own sport, 'Rally Racing', and not having a go at the real deal! Even though i like neither sport, it seems like Rugby and American Football.....steal an idea and invent your own sport that nobody else plays, so that your always the worlds best!

This show was simialr to doing white water rafting in a swimming pool, just so lazy people can see it eaiser!

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Not the brightest ever comment here really.
The X games has brought more money into us rallying, simply because of the exposure from this one event.

Compare the SSS in Finland to the X games, and the x games stage was much better.

If it gets the worlds biggest car market more interested in the sport, then it has done it's job. More STI's and Evo's are sold in the US, that the rest of the world put together.

Well, it is to them an Extreme Sport! Maybe WRC is too complicated... but don't forget... they do have a Rally Series and if you watched the coverage.... havnt finished it. They do explain the sport a bit and everything, though they have different words haha and accent is funny, but just like mine :p

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Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1

Well, it is to them an Extreme Sport! Maybe WRC is too complicated... but don't forget... they do have a Rally Series and if you watched the coverage.... havnt finished it. They do explain the sport a bit and everything, though they have different words haha and accent is funny, but just like mine :p

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Did anyone watch the first 4 or so minutes of the broadcast?

The whole time where they explained the mentality of rally, and what the X Games was relative to rally?


This was billed, presented, and comentated as a Super Special. Had the finish line not been simply stupid in design the only thing separating it from a WRC SSS was the huge jump (which the cars got special practice on and had the exact jump speed range needed to clear it properly).


Its all good and well to comment on rallying from the European perspective. You have a general population that has at the very least an indication of what rallying is. We don't have that in the US. We are still a very much "under cover" sport here. What is more interesting is the amount of WRC fans that don't know there is a domestic series.

The X Games is about two things. Getting people who have no idea about rally to go that looked pretty cool, I think I'll google this rally car thing (at which point they will find out the reality). And, getting money into our domestic series, which still only has one proper manufacturer backed team.

Last year there was a small surge in spectators and fans. This year we have a proper HD TV package in part because of this. Also, we have 3 championship committed and funded privateers, including one two car team that rivals the makes backed team for quality and caliber (run by SYMS).

You just can't promote rally in the US like you can in Europe. The basics of the sport are the same but the population and support for it are very different. In a lot of ways the X Games is a short cut to get to a more "European" appreciation and status for rally...

Love it or hate it, but in the US the X Games is worth about 2.5+ million in team sponsorships for the privateers each year, and thats VERY important.

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Originally Posted by cannyboy

Compare the SSS in Finland to the X games, and the x games stage was much better.

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In finland the sss is mainly for the sponsors, the rally is done somewhere else and i dont think you can find anything that even comes close anywhere else.

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Originally Posted by cannyboy

Not the brightest ever comment here really.

Compare the SSS in Finland to the X games, and the x games stage was much better.

.

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Equally thats not the brightest comment i have even read on here! Killeri SS is better for many reasons;

1. Not dangerous
2. The crowds
3. The cars
4. The jump is much better (the cars go over at the same time if its a close finish)
5. Its part of Rally Finland

All I was trying to say is that we may get a situation in the USA where people don't want to go to forest in the middle of nowhere etc.....instead opting for the easier to attend, more action packed SSS style of rallying. I honestly wouldn't be suprised if this does nothing for the amount of specy's out on the real stages. Didn't mean to offend anyone, i just don't believe its the best way to sell rallying as a sport.

Again, i don't mean to offend anyone but even though Rallying is an extreme sport, it doesn't have the ''yeh man, rad dude'' image of the X-Games, which is mostly for stonners on Skateboards and BMX's.

oh come on Doon is not that your offending anyone is that your are totally missing the point again!
yes its stadium SSS
No its not "real" rally
yes its american
yes its kindda dangerous
and yes its all a show!

but in america people think differently than in Europe, as you say this may not be the best way to sell rallying as sport but thats here in Europe! and if in America they see a car jumping over an other car and racing in a partly gravel stage they may be interested in the sport.
Lets say 4 in 10 people that watched liked it, 3 of them find the time to google it and find a little bit more about the sport, one finds out what real rally is and says "f+ck this im not going to a forest in the middle of nowhere to whatch a car for 5 seconds", one is too lazy and does nothing else than play colinmcrae in his playstation, but the other one goes to an actual rally!
what did the sport gained? well 10% of the people that watched it are now rally fans!!!
dont you think thats cool for the whole thing?
cheers

Jonas

and by the way the ''yeh man, rad dude'' is soooo stereotype Ive been to those events and there a loads and loads of nerds there that have never been skateboarding or anything like it haha

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Originally Posted by jonas_mcrae

and by the way the ''yeh man, rad dude'' is soooo stereotype Ive been to those events and there a loads and loads of nerds there that have never been skateboarding or anything like it haha

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I know, I was just having a laugh! Its like saying all rally fans have a warm flask of coffee and wear bobble hats.....actually... ;)

I get your point, and if it does attract 1 in 10 then fair enough, its done its job.

....and the prize money!! I was shocked! Might have a go myself for that kind of cash. lol! Just out of interest, what kind of prize money do winners of a WRC event get. I doubt the drivers get any do they? What to the teams get? (except from sponsors)

Haha they called the Subaru the Blue car and the Lancer the Red car in comintating :p

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Originally Posted by Doon

Equally thats not the brightest comment i have even read on here! Killeri SS is better for many reasons;

1. Not dangerous
2. The crowds
3. The cars
4. The jump is much better (the cars go over at the same time if its a close finish)
5. Its part of Rally Finland

All I was trying to say is that we may get a situation in the USA where people don't want to go to forest in the middle of nowhere etc.....instead opting for the easier to attend, more action packed SSS style of rallying. I honestly wouldn't be suprised if this does nothing for the amount of specy's out on the real stages. Didn't mean to offend anyone, i just don't believe its the best way to sell rallying as a sport.

Again, i don't mean to offend anyone but even though Rallying is an extreme sport, it doesn't have the ''yeh man, rad dude'' image of the X-Games, which is mostly for stonners on Skateboards and BMX's.

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rallycross maybe interesting for americans, they like circuit and contact sports more, rather than solo driving.

when i was watching the game i didn't even know the drivers were driving, except for the guy who won, they were just crashing into anything deliberately. the jump was very cool, but the course needed to be redesign for better safety, especially the finish.

The X-Games featres:-


(a) A super special stage

(b) Handfull of 'invited' drivers & crew

(c) A knock out system

(d) Is widely televised

(e) Packed stadium


If I am not mistaken, this is just a US version of the Race of Champions!?!

So why say it is not rallying?????

At least the X Games featured all rally drivers & looked good. Just need the Rally America organisers to adopt FIA regulation cars to make it more relevant.

Plus we now have Pastrana & Block competing outside the US. Bringing rallying closer to the American market. That is alot of sponsorhip dollars that could flow into the WRC eventually. If not with these drivers, but maybe a new generation inspired from what they saw. Without X Games, there would be nothing.

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Originally Posted by Doon

Equally thats not the brightest comment i have even read on here! Killeri SS is better for many reasons;

1. Not dangerous
2. The crowds
3. The cars
4. The jump is much better (the cars go over at the same time if its a close finish)
5. Its part of Rally Finland

All I was trying to say is that we may get a situation in the USA where people don't want to go to forest in the middle of nowhere etc.....instead opting for the easier to attend, more action packed SSS style of rallying. I honestly wouldn't be suprised if this does nothing for the amount of specy's out on the real stages. Didn't mean to offend anyone, i just don't believe its the best way to sell rallying as a sport.

Again, i don't mean to offend anyone but even though Rallying is an extreme sport, it doesn't have the ''yeh man, rad dude'' image of the X-Games, which is mostly for stonners on Skateboards and BMX's.

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People already don't really want to go into the woods to watch cars in masse now anyway, so what can it hurt.

See, here is the problem. You are judging an American event, featuring largely American drivers, and its relevance to American rallying, with a Euro view. Its just different.

There is also a huge misperception of what the X Games fan base is. There are a lot more people into watching the X Games then stoners on skateboards and BMXs. Just more misinformation making a realistic judgement impossible (BTW, I thought it was a great Rally Cross and very entertaining but not rally...)

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Originally Posted by Livewireshock

The X-Games featres:-


(a) A super special stage

(b) Handfull of 'invited' drivers & crew

(c) A knock out system

(d) Is widely televised

(e) Packed stadium


If I am not mistaken, this is just a US version of the Race of Champions!?!

So why say it is not rallying?????

At least the X Games featured all rally drivers & looked good. Just need the Rally America organisers to adopt FIA regulation cars to make it more relevant.

Plus we now have Pastrana & Block competing outside the US. Bringing rallying closer to the American market. That is alot of sponsorhip dollars that could flow into the WRC eventually. If not with these drivers, but maybe a new generation inspired from what they saw. Without X Games, there would be nothing.

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Rally America regulations are very similiar to the FIA atleast for car construction. Event regulations are different but that represents the constraints that the event organizers are saddled with.

Our top class of cars are built off of Group N specifications with more freedom on the drive train, larger restrictors, and less constraints with regards to body panneling. You could take a N4 car and build a more powerful motor and change the gearbox and have a high spec US car.

The X Games last year generated about 2.5 million USD directly into teams involved in the sport, thats pretty big... If it keeps getting bigger it will be good for rally (because if rally is good in the US it can make things better in a lot more places).

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Originally Posted by Doon

Equally thats not the brightest comment i have even read on here! Killeri SS is better for many reasons;

1. Not dangerous
2. The crowds
3. The cars
4. The jump is much better (the cars go over at the same time if its a close finish)
5. Its part of Rally Finland

All I was trying to say is that we may get a situation in the USA where people don't want to go to forest in the middle of nowhere etc.....instead opting for the easier to attend, more action packed SSS style of rallying. I honestly wouldn't be suprised if this does nothing for the amount of specy's out on the real stages. Didn't mean to offend anyone, i just don't believe its the best way to sell rallying as a sport.

Again, i don't mean to offend anyone but even though Rallying is an extreme sport, it doesn't have the ''yeh man, rad dude'' image of the X-Games, which is mostly for stonners on Skateboards and BMX's.

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Doon, you have that already in Europe. You only have to count the numbers at a super special & they easily outnumber those out in the forest stages at most events.

Plus the X Games does not mean that all American rallying will shift to Super Specials in stadiums. To qualify for an invitation to the X Games you must obtain a high position in a regular Rally America series rally & their championship.

The USA already has a glut of stadium racing from motorcross, monster trucks, tractor pulls, off road buggies, baja, mud running etc.....

Rally got into the X Games because of computer gaming. They saw the appeal of it to the X Game crowd. No, it is not a European mentality but it is not a European market they are trying to win over.

Thousands of motorcross fans are now taking a serious look at what rallying is because of Pastrana's crossover. Now fans of other extremem sports are getting a closer look too.

Let it grow, let it be strong.

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Originally Posted by Doon

All I was trying to say is that we may get a situation in the USA where people don't want to go to forest in the middle of nowhere etc.....instead opting for the easier to attend, more action packed SSS style of rallying. I honestly wouldn't be suprised if this does nothing for the amount of specy's out on the real stages. Didn't mean to offend anyone, i just don't believe its the best way to sell rallying as a sport.

Again, i don't mean to offend anyone but even though Rallying is an extreme sport, it doesn't have the ''yeh man, rad dude'' image of the X-Games, which is mostly for stonners on Skateboards and BMX's.

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Your comments are very superficial.

It's clear that you don't understand the growth and current position of rallying in the US and what influences it.

And by all accounts, from everyone that participated, the drivers, the organizers, ESPN, R-A and the fans packed in the stands, this was a success, and a big moment for the sport in the USA.

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Originally Posted by Livewireshock

Rally got into the X Games because of computer gaming. They saw the appeal of it to the X Game crowd. No, it is not a European mentality but it is not a European market they are trying to win over.

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I thought it got in so Pastrana could win another medal or something along those lines?

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Originally Posted by WRXedUSA

And by all accounts, from everyone that participated, the drivers, the organizers, ESPN, R-A and the fans packed in the stands, this was a success, and a big moment for the sport in the USA.

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Packed stadium? You mean the people that hadn't left after the Skateboard vert final? :)

oh Doon terrible coments now, why didnt you just name the thread

"I hate Rally being in the Xgames, I hate america, and I hate travis pastrana and by the way next wrc season I want all events to be held in Europe"???

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Originally Posted by jonas_mcrae

oh Doon terrible coments now, why didnt you just name the thread

"I hate Rally being in the Xgames, I hate america, and I hate travis pastrana and by the way next wrc season I want all events to be held in Europe"???

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Actually jonas, I quite like Pastrana.... well i respect his enthusiasm! I think he is good for the sport in the US, but honestly I thought Rallying was introduced into the X-Games largely because of him?

With the exceptions of Safari, NZ and Argentina, maybe Japan, the best events are in Europe.....so cork it!

well theres no way round you is it?
just hope American rally proves you wrong in the next few years...

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Originally Posted by Doon

I thought it got in so Pastrana could win another medal or something along those lines?

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:s hakes head:

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Originally Posted by Doon

Actually jonas, I quite like Pastrana.... well i respect his enthusiasm! I think he is good for the sport in the US, but honestly I thought Rallying was introduced into the X-Games largely because of him?

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Because of him, his X Games credability, his profile, his sponsors, and many hundreds if not thousands of countless hours put in by Rally America.

Pastrana is the X Games in terms of name recognition and perceived X Games credability. It was not an event to increase his medal count (his contract extension after 2006 basically severely limited his ability to compete in X Games doing 2 events in 2007 instead of 4...)

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Originally Posted by Doon

Packed stadium? You mean the people that hadn't left after the Skateboard vert final? :)

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That stadium seats like 30,000 people.

AFIK is that the stadium sold out for the day. The beauty and the curse of X Games tickets is that the HDC is treated like a free pass campus, one ticket gets you in and then you go where you like. Considering the skateboard vert finals absorbed a lot of the potential tickets the crowd was nothing to shake a stick out (we get tops 7,500 spectators at a large US national anyway). Besides the 10-15,000 people that were there screamed their heads off and loved every minute of it. This on top of the 4.5+ million Americans that watched it live on TV (TV audience is what counts anyway).

Oh yeah. Rally Car got national press on countless news broadcasts and radio shows, something that no other event short of a disastrous roll has been able to do (2005 Pastrana Colorado Cog Rally at over 100 MPH to be precise).

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Originally Posted by L5->R5/CR

Oh yeah. Rally Car got national press on countless news broadcasts and radio shows, something that no other event short of a disastrous roll has been able to do (2005 Pastrana Colorado Cog Rally at over 100 MPH to be precise).

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That's good going and I'm pleased to hear that. More than we get here in the UK. Maybe we need rallying in the olympics to raise the profile of the sport!

Funny thing is the US rally championship is doing a lot better than the UK one at the minute!
Perhaps it's time for a UK X games?

Here's my two cents:
I'm an American convert to rally. I'm actually the complete opposite of that stereotype of an X Games fan; I'm a woman, I've never been stoned, and I've never said the word "rad" in my life. All I had to pique my interest was the ISC-produced review shows on Speed. It took me a while to really understand what rallying is, because we American's don't have anything like this here. I remember being quite surprised to learn what a time control was.

So how do you sell what is in effect not only a new sport, but a new concept? Americans haven't bought into rugby, cricket, or even Crystal Pepsi. David Beckham is trying to sell soccer/football, and it's an uphill battle even when millions of children play soccer after school. There's no marketing firm to produce ads or PR events. So all we have are grassroots supporters, video games and now, the X Games.

I see the X Games as more of a TV ad than the whole show. And admit it--as unrally-like as it was, it was a ton of fun.

However, when your only mainstream proponent of rally is an extreme sports competition, you're going to get rallying branded as an extreme sport. We couldn't prevent that. Also, the X Games organizers probably didn't see a point in holding gravel stages without spectators, and that would only damage the cars. It'd be great if American rallying could be the same as the WRC, but it's simply not possible in this early stage.

As livewireshock said, we have to let it grow. You can't dig up the daisies to see if the roots are growing.

I do wonder, though--what will happen to Rally America when Travis Pastrana starts his full PWRC campaign?

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Originally Posted by cannyboy

Funny thing is the US rally championship is doing a lot better than the UK one at the minute!
Perhaps it's time for a UK X games?

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How do you figure that out? I know the BRC is in a bit of a state, but it still has some world class drivers in it.

Honestly i'm not trying to have a go, i would love rallying to take off in the USA, it would make it a bigger sport world wide and if the US market can be cracked thats an achievement. It's a bit like music!

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Originally Posted by amberie

I see the X Games as more of a TV ad than the whole show. And admit it--as unrally-like as it was, it was a ton of fun.

However, when your only mainstream proponent of rally is an extreme sports competition, you're going to get rallying branded as an extreme sport. We couldn't prevent that. Also, the X Games organizers probably didn't see a point in holding gravel stages without spectators, and that would only damage the cars. It'd be great if American rallying could be the same as the WRC, but it's simply not possible in this early stage.

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Actually, in 2006 they ran gravel stages. The issue was that these stages needed to be ran before the X games proper started in order to utilize the X Games broadcast and production staff. So they ran something like 40 or 60 gravel miles on Wednesday last year, then the SSS on Saturday.

While most of the logistics can be worked out (the shift by the forest service to go anti-rally in SoCal after years of partnership and rally making a positive contribution to their resources) the other issue is keeping the live broadcast meaningful. In 2006 they divided the difference in total stage times by a quotient of 5 to compress any leads or deficits incurred on the stages to make the differences small enough so that there would be battles on the SSS. It worked and after leading most of the day Travis Pastrana had his 5 second deficit cut to 1 so he can McRae could go head to head.

The structure of the X Games Rally Car Super Special is to guarantee that the medals are decided in front of the live TV audience. A stage rally format doesn't work for that so the SSS became the basis. Its not rally, but it works, it was incredible that ESPN kept as much rally as possible last year.

Rally-America and ESPN are in a partnership, hopefully that can grow, if it does there will be a bigger TV package and perhaps more rally centric planning of the Rally Car event. All of this helps rally get a little bigger piece of the pie in the US. There is a lot of money and a lot of support out there to be had, but NASCAR is the $532 million USD giant (that is just the annual value of the broadcast TV rights and many analysts put the value over $600 million). Finding a support audience away from competing with NASCAR for fans is part of the key. Rally will sell itself to people if you simply get it infront of them long enough, Rally America and ESPN are working towards that.


What will be interesting is that Colin has said he enjoys the X Games but he will have to either earn an invite of be an at large bid. While I can see Rally America inviting him, I'd prefer him to qualify his way in instead... :)

Doon,

I suggest you go to Wembley on the 16th of December this year.

Watch the Race of Champions event.

See how it is virtually the same as the X-Games but with various international wild card drivers, neutral spec cars & a National teams competition.

The Race of Champions is more geared to being about the sport & the nature of competition. F1, Rally, Touring Cars, Bikes & even Nascar are all represented. It is about the cream of the cream, fighting it out on even terms.

Now imagine the BRC guys being allowed to compete at the RoC. It would have the same effect as the X-Games for the local sport. Sponsors would clamour to be a part of that show. But sponsorship is not allowed to appear on RoC cars, so no dice.

Be thankful that the X Games is giving back to the sport.

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Originally Posted by Doon

With the exceptions of Safari, NZ and Argentina, maybe Japan, the best events are in Europe.....so cork it!

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I think you have the cork in the wrong spot. Snobbery about who is better than who is never going to be good. I am sorry but it is a WORLD championship, not the ERC. We need all the drivers from around the world to become more involved to grow & succeed.

If Rally America converted to full FIA sanctioned rules with proper Gp. N & S2000 cars, then I see the seeds growing for a WRC round heading stateside or to Canada at least. Mexico was never going to cut it, the US seems than to prefer heading north to their southern neighbour.

Having the X-Games & a local WRC event would make Rally explode in the US. Plus open up their Rally America championship to other drivers & manufacturers.

Where would a WRC round be held in the US? Rally surface? I think if it did come into the US market as a WRC event, for each year to rotate locations?.... Gives it something different each year and would attract people from both west and east coasts to go if held in their part, then later in another maybe not wanting to miss out.