WRC - Safety Upgrades

MJW pointed out these pictures, from the 1000 Lakes Shakedown:
http://www.rally-live.com/wrc/en/pho..._shak_03.shtml

http://www.rally-live.com/wrc/en/pho...iapo_056.shtml

http://www.rally-live.com/wrc/en/pho...iapo_057.shtml

http://www.rally-live.com/wrc/en/pho...iapo_058.shtml

Anyone seen anything more on this.

It looks like improved cockpit protection, but it looks like half measures. I could be wrong, but there doesn't appear to be any crash aborbing structures.

The FIA have been asleep at the wheel for along time, as far as WRC safety is concerned, I hope they wake up soon.

The FIA Institute CLOSED CAR RESEARCH GROUP is supposed to be working improving WRC safety, but are wheels turning at all?

FIA has added HANS, winged seats (required?) updated requirements on suits, seats, and belts in a past few years - I'm not sure what else.
Interesting photos - Thanks

looks more safe for side impacts but difficult to get out fast!! dont u think?

Has to be nightmare to get in and out of tough

are they built into the doors?

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Originally Posted by bt52b

I could be wrong, but there doesn't appear to be any crash aborbing structures.

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Note that all blue parts are new. And note that also doors are blue.

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Originally Posted by bowler

are they built into the doors?

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Maybe they are

Looks like old style NASCAR :(

WRC 2008 Safety Upgrades
http://www.fia.com/automotive/issue1.../article2.html

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The Advanced Side Impact System, developed by the FIA Institute’s Closed Car Research Group, is designed to save rally crews from serious injury in the event of a high speed side-on collision with a solid object.

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For the first rally in 2008, the nets, energy absorber, extra space and belt anchorages will be brought in. These represent the major part of the improved protection package. Mid-season will see the introduction of the improved seat and seat-rails. The door cage is planned for 2009, with further testing scheduled for this component.

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Its a start, hope they do alot more work.

So what are your ideas on improving safety further bt52?

Mainly more side impact protect. Better cockpit intrusion protection, even the new FIA strutures have gaps, that fence post would go thru'. They should be using stronger glass. Crash test for each model.

I would bet that The NASCAR Car of Tomorrow side impact protection Impaxx foam structures could be fitted to most rally cars. Fairly low tech and relatively cheap.
http://automotive.dow.com/automotive...arpresskit.htm

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IMPAXX foam is designed to absorb and attenuate energy in a crash. The energy of the impact is managed through a series of controlled reactions within the foam. The result is a controlled release of energy, allowing forces to be better spread throughout the vehicle from the time of impact to the end of the crash sequence.

While safety was the primary driver in the move to the Car of Tomorrow, efficiency of use is another important factor, and one in which IMPAXX foam also contributes. The material benefits from a well-tested and flexible manufacturing process that adds greatly to its ease of adaptability for specific NASCAR use, therefore making the solution very cost efficient.

Just as in mass production passenger vehicle use, IMPAXX foam benefits also include:
Being up to 50% lighter than comparable energy absorption materials and 30% more efficient

Consistent performance at temperature extremes

Great flexibility in fitting into pre-determined spaces, as it can be cut and shaped into any form and size

Fast and efficient production methods enable great reliability in supply

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http://automotive.dow.com/automotive...xcagepress.gif
http://automotive.dow.com/automotive.../20070122a.htm

Just look at F1 this year. Coulthard and Wurz crashed into each other. Thought it was abit too scary, and have now pushed through a safety upgrade for next year. Ever heard that happening in the WRC.

The FIA have been very slow to push changes thru'. Much of the research into side impact protection came after Audi and Mercedes worked together after Keith Odor's fatal crash about ten years ago. Much of what was learned went into DTM years over five years ago. Even V8 Supercars this year have moved the driver seat away from the door and improved the side impact structures. There hasn't been a major upgrade in side impact structures in Rallying for a long time. Hope this is only the first new chapter of improved safety in rallying.

Gabriel

You have some interesting inputs bt52b, although I do not completely agree with you that the safety in rallying have not developed during the last few years. Take the hans-system for one example. One shouldn´t forget either that focus(sic!) have been on protecting the public watching the rallies, since this was very bad until only a few years ago. I remeber in 2000 when we walked back from stages in sweden, on the road, just jumping in the ditch when the next car came by.
One should also remember that circuit-racing cars are more likely to have some severe damages in case of an accident due to other cars. I have no doubt that FIA is trying to implement a high level of safety, regardles of which kind of motorsport we are discussing. Tha costs from severe accidents can be very high, not only because thay may turn fatal, but because it gives our sport very bad credit, and costs a fortune.
Another problem with rally cars, where you have two persons, compared to circuit-racing, is that no matter what you only have about a decimeter to absorb the energy. In a circuit car you often have the driver in the middle; that makes energyabsorbing a whole lot easier.

Maybe it can protect the driver and co-driver from incidents like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukXDcxCSMKc

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Originally Posted by Magnus

You have some interesting inputs bt52b, although I do not completely agree with you that the safety in rallying have not developed during the last few years. Take the hans-system for one example. One shouldn´t forget either that focus(sic!) have been on protecting the public watching the rallies, since this was very bad until only a few years ago. I remeber in 2000 when we walked back from stages in sweden, on the road, just jumping in the ditch when the next car came by.
One should also remember that circuit-racing cars are more likely to have some severe damages in case of an accident due to other cars. I have no doubt that FIA is trying to implement a high level of safety, regardles of which kind of motorsport we are discussing. Tha costs from severe accidents can be very high, not only because thay may turn fatal, but because it gives our sport very bad credit, and costs a fortune.
Another problem with rally cars, where you have two persons, compared to circuit-racing, is that no matter what you only have about a decimeter to absorb the energy. In a circuit car you often have the driver in the middle; that makes energyabsorbing a whole lot easier.

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Compare WRC and rallycar design to DTM, NASCAR and V8 Supercar, none is perfect, but better rallycar cockpit protection is lacking for along time.

Racing saloons need better side protection mainly because of the risk of side impact collisions from other cars. Rallycar can suffer them impacts on stage from a following competitor, plus the risk of trees and lamp post.

The basic concept of moving the seats in towrds the centre and backwards a bit has been around for some time. Few have tried to do this in rally cars. Not great for driving position, but a bit safer.

Having the problem of two seats in a rally car makes it harder to deal with, but the more they the push technology in this area, the more it should have direct impacts on road car safety, which would be good thing all round.

The really strange thing about the FIA announcement is that there is no mention of Super Touring, GT or any race cars. Similar cars, similar cages, surely it affects them too.

WRC SEASON STARTS WITH SAFETY UPGRADE
25.01.2008

The teams in the FIA World Rally Championship have incorporated the FIA Institute’s new side impact safety system in time for the start of the 2008 season, beginning with Rallye Automobile Monte-Carlo.


The Advanced Side Impact System, developed by the FIA Institute’s Closed Car Research Group, is designed to help save rally drivers and co-drivers from serious injury in the event of a high speed side-on crash with a solid object.

FIA President Max Mosley said:

“The Advanced Side Impact System is another excellent example of the FIA Institute’s partnership approach to improving motor sport safety. I’m delighted with the support given by the WRC teams in developing the system and all of those involved in the project should be congratulated on what they have achieved.”

FIA Institute President Sid Watkins added:

“After three years of research and testing I am delighted to see these important safety measures incorporated into the rally cars. The teams and drivers have been highly supportive throughout and I look forward to further collaborations as we continue to strive for ever higher levels of safety in our sport.”

The teams have been busy over the winter incorporating the crucial components of the system, which include more survival space and side impact energy absorbers.

The creation of a 200mm space between the door and the seat provides the critical survival space that will be used to help minimise the energy and forces on the body of the occupant in the event of a collision. The 200mm space will be filled with high efficiency energy absorbing material, to enable the crash forces to be attenuated.

Further side impact measures, including a stronger supporting seat, stronger seat rails, safety nets and optimised belt anchorage positions will be phased in during the summer break. In 2009, it is planned to introduce a new load spreading door cage system.

Petter Solberg, Subaru World Rally Team driver and 2003 FIA World Rally Champion, said:

“The FIA Institute is taking steps forward all the time with developments like the side impact protection system and safety in motorsport in general. I am pleased that the Subaru World Rally Team has been a major supporter in developing the system with the FIA. I think that the FIA has a lot of good ideas for the future and I hope we all see the sport get even safer.”

Mikko Hirvonen, BP Ford Abu Dhabi World Rally Team driver, said:

"Crew safety is the top priority for everyone in rallying. As a driver I obviously appreciate the need to focus on safety, and it is hugely encouraging to see how closely the teams have been working with the FIA Institute and the importance that has been placed on making rally cars as strong as possible. I'm also pleased to see that research will continue in the future with a view to taking improved safety even further."

The FIA Institute began work on the side impact project in March 2005, in partnership with the Subaru and Peugeot teams. One of the major challenges was designing a system which could be integrated by all teams in the current rally cars.

With this in mind, the project group arrived at a formula which breaks down the individual safety components into steps that the teams could easily incorporate into their cars.

The first target was to minimise the energy forces on the occupants of the car during a collision. This is achieved through greater survival space as well as energy absorbing material and a load spreading door cage.

The next priority was strengthening the driver’s seat to improve head, shoulder and pelvic support. The seat is important because it is the main connection between the driver’s body and the car. It also provides the last line of protection should an accident occur.

The safety nets, still under development with the teams, will be placed along the centre-line of the car, between the driver and co driver, in order to limit the excursion of the occupants, and prevent them impacting each other during a violent impact or roll.

The belt positions have been specified to create optimised belt strap geometry and angles which ensure the torso is efficiently and equally restrained by each of the straps of the safety harness.

The load spreading door system will increase the strength of the car in the region of the front doors, and will reduce the intrusion during a side impact accident.

By introducing these measures in stages, the rally teams are able to incorporate them more easily into the designs of their car.

Much of the research was conducted in co-operation with Peugeot and Prodrive, with engineering design by the Subaru World Rally Team. A high-g sled at DEKRA was commissioned for development testing where it was demonstrated that a high velocity 70g side impact could be survived without serious injury.

With basis in Øsberg/Barth accident, does FIA need to revisit the safety issues, with focus on side impact?

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Originally Posted by Sulland

With basis in Øsberg/Barth accident, does FIA need to revisit the safety issues, with focus on side impact?

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The only thing you could do is make the cars wider so there's room for a crumble zone. And that could actually be done pretty easily, since the cars are already wider at the wheels.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

The only thing you could do is make the cars wider so there's room for a crumble zone. And that could actually be done pretty easily, since the cars are already wider at the wheels.

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You mean make fatter doors that are as wide as the wheel arches ? A nice idea, but all these cars would need these fitted retrospectively and the costs may be significant.

The Rally1 cars already have thicker side protection so they should be ok, as several big crashes have proved.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-r...y-to-wrc-cars/

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Originally Posted by Sulland

With basis in Øsberg/Barth accident, does FIA need to revisit the safety issues, with focus on side impact?

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I don't think there was anything particularly remarkable about that accident that needs changes to cars.

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

I don't think there was anything particularly remarkable about that accident that needs changes to cars.

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Occupants of much more severe crashes have walked away uninjured, but the effect of this 'unremarkable' side-impact was pretty bad (co-driver unconscious, bleeding with broken jaw and hip)...

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Occupants of much more severe crashes have walked away uninjured, but the effect of this 'unremarkable' side-impact was pretty bad (co-driver unconscious, bleeding with broken jaw and hip)...

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Is there evidence to suggest more door material will prevent that? When the driver also broke a rib, perhaps it's something else can be improved related to lateral impacts? Seats, harnesses etc.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Occupants of much more severe crashes have walked away uninjured, but the effect of this 'unremarkable' side-impact was pretty bad (co-driver unconscious, bleeding with broken jaw and hip)...

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20 years ago this accident would likely end being fatal. A lot was done even though it is not that visible.

As denkimi said the only major thing you can do is to add width at the door area but that is not possible within Rally2 rules using stock bodyshell and door. You can therefore either go full Rally 1 (it's not only about the door depth but also the crew in the Rally 1 sits closer to each other) or you can somewhat help by using special prototype door on the Rally 2 bodyshells. It is most likely doable but It will be expensive and I don't think anyone wants to bring very expensive solutions to the customer-oriented Rally 2.

The 17 cars had a pretty neat solution already, that could be doable for Rally2 with reasonable cost I would guess. But probably something for a future regulation change not as a add on for now.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C99o4...JyNHB3NWwzenk2

Imagine this would happen in 180km/h

Is it not easier & cheaper to just put bales in front of all trees on the outside of corners? ;)

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Originally Posted by J4MIE

Is it not easier & cheaper to just put bales in front of all trees on the outside of corners? ;)

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Indeed. That was the case in Rally di Roma on lots of trees and posts, but those against the wall here were forgotten. I hope that the organisers learn from this...

According to someone, there was a bale on that tree in recce, but it was later moved.

How about rally car seats having built-in side airbags like road cars do ?

Youtube is full od videos of situations when airbags were deployed due to car jumping a little, hitting a curb while doing extremely slow speed drift at parking lot etc. Obviously it is very much down to a sensitivity settings of the whole system, but just imagine all the hits that rally car such as rally2 can take while being driven properly - where do you draw the line in this? Surely you dont want it to be deployed after perfectly okay landing at massive jump between the trees in the forest of finland or similar.

There is a reason why there are no airbags in rally cars, even though they are pretty common in road cars for couple of decades already.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

How about rally car seats having built-in side airbags like road cars do ?

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Eddie, Sulland, airbag in a rally car is useless. Airbag is not an energy absorbing feature but an additional way to restrain the occupant's bodies. In a rallycar an airbag brings nothing for the safety because the crew is perfectly restrained in their seats by 5-point non-reeling seatbelts, HANS and monocoque seat with head and side restrains and they wear helmets. In a passenger car this is not possible purely because of comfort and the airbag is there to mitigate the imperfection of the restraining system.

An airbag is not meant to dissipate energy of an object penetrating into the cabin or deforming it. This energy is so huge that airbag can't dissipate any meaningful portion of it.

I give you a small very simplified example. You crash at 50 km/h, your head has about 5 kg. At the kmoment of crash in a passenger car the head continuous to move with a speed close to the speed of the car at the moment of the crash. That means the head has a kinetic energy of roughly 500 J. This is what the airbag is meant to stop. But for stopping the tree penetrating into the car you need to stop the energy of the entire car. In this case it is about 140000J which is nearly 300x more.

This looks like a very dangerous crash to me. The car is traveling at decent speed when it hits an immovable object directly where someone is sitting. That's a huge amount of force in a concentrated area in a sudden impact.

Don't be fooled by crashes that "look big" but actually don't result in big forces on the occupants. For example, a car that goes off the road at 120kmh, and rolls ten times, before finally coming to a stop 400m away in a field. Looks big, but all that energy is dissipated gradually over time as the car slows down during the crash. Much less dangerous.

Exactly, it's the 'sudden stop' crash like this that causes the worst injuries.

And, with all but the Rally1 cars, it seems the sudden stop side-impact is the most dangerous of all, with little energy dissipation and nothing can realistically be done to add more protection. :(

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Airbag is not an energy absorbing feature but an additional way to restrain the occupant's bodies.

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Yes it is. It functions as a crumble zone for the body. It slowly absorbs the energy that of the occupants body that would otherwise get abruptly absorbed by solid things like the steering wheel.

In fact, being constrained by a bucket seat and a 5 point harness is worse than being constrained by airbags. If the car comes to a solid stop, bucket seat make your body also come to a solid stop, creating enormous amounts of G's. If you are constrained by an airbag, the impact is spread out over a longer time, drastically reducing G forces.

But the issue with airbags is that they only work in one direction, while a crash can come from anywhere. Plus, rally cars are filled with big metal tubes and little space to actually move, making seat and harnesses a more reliable solution.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

And, with all but the Rally1 cars, it seems the sudden stop side-impact is the most dangerous of all, with little energy dissipation and nothing can realistically be done to add more protection. :(

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Yes you could. As I said before, you could put something between the front and rear wheels to act as a crumble zone.
It doesn't even have to cover the whole side. A bar just above the ground would help in most of the dangerous sideways accidents, hitting trees and poles. Something like the 2017 cars had, but then made of something that works as energy absorbing.


https://i.pinimg.com/564x/45/19/ac/4...e2e2855a8e.jpg

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Originally Posted by denkimi

Yes it is. It functions as a crumble zone for the body. It slowly absorbs the energy that of the occupants body that would otherwise get abruptly absorbed by solid things like the steering wheel.

In fact, being constrained by a bucket seat and a 5 point harness is worse than being constrained by airbags. If the car comes to a solid stop, bucket seat make your body also come to a solid stop, creating enormous amounts of G's. If you are constrained by an airbag, the impact is spread out over a longer time, drastically reducing G forces.

But the issue with airbags is that they only work in one direction, while a crash can come from anywhere. Plus, rally cars are filled with big metal tubes and little space to actually move, making seat and harnesses a more reliable solution.

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G-force is critical factor mainly for the human brain. With helmet, HANS and the current rally seats there is no point in using airbag. The job to somewhat slow down the brain acceleration is up to the internal structure of the helmet.

For the soft organs in the belly the critical factor is not G-force but organ displacement. That's why the rally belts are faaaaaar better than those in a stock car and why physical condition matters a lot in case of crash.

For the limbs the G-factor isn't important. The injury comes from mechanical damage.