...as Gil de Ferran quits Honda.
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40052
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...as Gil de Ferran quits Honda.
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40052
Sinking? Sunk more like it ;)
Honda are in a mess. I bet that was an incredibly frustrating job!
Who's next?
I'm sure there's still some glutton for punishment who wants the challenge.
I don't see what he ever did anyway, other than being a media spokesman. Probably why he was dissatisfied.
i blame the appauling livery.
who wouldn't....? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuartf12007
I wouldn't. I have grown to like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJP
The problems with Honda are far deeper than DeFerran, but He has alos played his part in sigining his buddy Rubens to a long term contract and by not managing the staff properly or getting them prepared for the 2007 campaign. There was a general air of content after the 2006 eason and they did nothing but take step backwards in 2007.
Let's be honest here. We are talking about the hiring of a driver who had beaten SchM, arguably one of the best to ever race in F1, on even terms. Who the hell would not have signed Rubens up given half the chance? The problem here is that somehow the car did not suit Rubens, Rubens did not suit the car, or simply the car started a slow decline. Take your pick. I don't mind a lot of jokes at Rubens lack of success, I am possibly more guilty than most others at this. But sometimes we do have to take stock of what we say and admit that, jokes aside to keep this forum rambling along during quiet times, we can be wrong in our assessments.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
This Honda is a lousy design, Gil has not been given the role Ross Brawn had at Ferrari, and it's all gone pear shape.
I have had my digs at bunsen and Rubens, but let's face it, the car is bloody hopeless if it can be beaten by a second hand Honda in a budget team.
I never did understand what exactly he was doing at Honda anyway.
And for those taking potshots at Honda, the car is getting better ('bout damn time too).
LINK PLEASE!! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper
I second that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuartf12007
How do you figure that the car is getting better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper
The Honda ship was holed below the water line the day they removed David Richards. The ship was sunk the day they got rid of Geoff Willis.
If one thing can be learned from the Jaguar Racing mess it has to be that stability in your technical and leadership teams is essential to success in F1. Stability doesn't automatically mean success but instabilty will invariably lead to failure.
I guess Honda haven't taken any lessons from what made Ferrari so strong and Jaguar so weak.
well put!
championships are based around continuality and evolution
Richards and Willis helped Honda, but BAR didn't see it that way.....
I drive Honda's personally, but the F1 team is sinking....fast....
It's getting better than it was at the start of this season, possibly. But that's a huge step backwards from where they were even last year, let alone the 11 podiums (as BAR) of 2004.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper
So does Taku and ant; well second hand ones anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsarcasm
But that doesn't help, does it?
Indeed, it takes about 3 years to design and build a winning Formula 1 car. You can't keep chopping and changing.
I think Honda will be glad when this season ends - they will unveil a totally new car for next year. I just hope Aguri won't be landed with this years duds. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
I really can't see what the technical side of Honda has to do with de Ferran.
De Ferran was just an advisor with a fancy title, much the same way Gerhard Berger was an advisor with a fancy title at BMW, and now you have Schumi working as advisor/consultancy role. I believe Niki Lauda had a similar role with McLaren and Ferrari over 10years ago.
I'm guessing De Ferran wants to progress into a more hands on approach/management role instead of doing PR all the time.
So the samurai sword has finally fallen on Gil de Ferran.
I see that as a positive step, I argued from the day of his appointment he would be a disaster for Honda, and it proved to be the case, it was he who employed Barrichello his close friend, a driver who had previously sold his WC ambition for a bank full of money when he signed up to be MS;s rear gunner.
A driver who after winter testing plus several races announced he couldn't drive the car!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a capture from Ferrai that was.
I believe it was de Ferran that undermined Willis,(I have no concrete evidence, just paddock rumour) if team Honda are to improve, perhaps de Ferran's dismissal will prove to be the catalyst.
Regards scaliwag.
Strange (or not) the 2 Japanese car companies with similar attitudes towards staff and changing personnel all the time are both floundering. IMO they both need a strong team manager who is left alone to run the team with staff that isn't being rotated in and out of Japan on a regular basis. I realize most of the pit lane crew are not from Japan but the engine people and a lot of the back room boys are.
That's enough evidence to start this kind of thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by scaliwag
you really have to feel a bit for button here. he's sweat blood on that team, only considered moving because he was being stiched, has worked tirelessly since then, scored most of their points and their one win and has nothing to show for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Drifter
the boy can drive but he's mounting a turd.
Its a bit of a pity that McLarri gate blew up otherwise he may have had a car next year to challenge :laugh:
Like when he wanted to jump ship from Honda and move to Williams and then later on reneged on his contracted obligations to move to the same team he wanted to jump ship to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat.tyres
Bunsen made his bed and it's poetic justice that he has to lie in a bed of shyte.
he was being stiched royally at the time and any driver worth his seat would not stand for that. drivers jumping is happening all the time and all of them will try and get the best drive for the next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
your little friend Ant would have been off like a shot if he was poached but it was 1 year, not two and Honda had a tight noose.
Actually, I want to go on record right now to refute what you say. For a start, bunsen was contracted to Honda when he tried to jump ship to Williams. Then he was contracted to Williams and he reneged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat.tyres
As for Williams offering to give ant a test drive, it appears you know nothing about Williams's intentions. It was never for a race seat for one year. And I challenge you to give me one single instance where ant was disloyal to Honda.
Absolute nonsense!Quote:
Originally Posted by scaliwag
Gil does not regularly test drive the car nor does he have a full working knowledge of computational fluid dynamics.
Gil had no legitimacy to undermine Willis, Gil was just lurking in the background serving an apprenticeship in management.
The only sway he had at Honda was in the hiring of his friend Rubens, and it did seem to be a very good choice at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
And still is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Jenson was struggling more than Rubens in the first half of this season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
I don't mean that, although you do have a point there. But here is a guy, as I said before, who had outqualified and beaten SchM on equal terms on occasion.
go on record all you want my friend :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
I also never claimed that Ant was disloyal to Honda or that the potential seat was at Williams. all I will say is that if you think any driver out there would sit on his thumbs rather than have a shot in a competitive car, then you are sadly mistaken. lets face it, the only reason that Ant didn't drive last year was that he might have had a shot in the Honda seat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat.tyres
You seem to have dodged the painful bunsen stitches and tried to deflect your argument towards ant.
Your last statement is irrelevant and just plain dumb. Honda had bunsen and Rubens, so how you could possibly think ant had a chance to drive at Honda last year is just plain silly.
wedge,.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
De Ferran's time at team Honda was remarkable simply because he achieved absolutely nothing, zero, zilch.
His appointment of RB was an unmitigated disaster, AD Honda tester was the obvious replacement for TS, why was he overlooked???????.
My point is still the same DF employed RB for reason's of friendship, not for the benefit of team Honda.
Whether DF tests or has knowledge of computational fluid dynamics is irrelevant.
Regards scaliwag.
Taku has been the better driver for Super Aguri ie. revised RA06, so I don't see how Ant would do a better job in the RA07 when Ant has a similar driver style to Button. On the other hand, Rubens has been the better driver so far in the dreadful RA07. I see no reason how Ant would do any better.Quote:
Originally Posted by scaliwag
http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/Davidson
http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/Barrichello
you are right it isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by killincommies
In fact they abandoned the 2007 car and went back to the 2006 model as of Silverstone. Which, of course, leads to more confusion as to the Super Aguri car. But as the Speed TV crew said. The team selling their previous year's model don't give up the intellectual rights and are more than legally able to use that "older" model if they so choose fit too.
Actually, I think Speed TV have that wrong. The Concorde Agreement says something along the lines of a constructor being the owner of the IP rights to a car design. If Honda sold the IP rights to Super Aguri for the 2006 car then they would be in breach of the Condorde Agreement if they were then to use the 2006 car themselves. Honda can't use the 2006 car because it isn't theirs to use. They could no more use the 2006 car than McLaren could use the F2007. Next year it's OK but this year it isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
I think that's how it works, anyway. :confused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Let's hope they don't take the 2006 car back off Super Aguri, leaving SA with those antique Arrows. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
De Ferran was never going to be a technical director, thats not what he was hired for.
He was supposed to be the link between the drivers and the team, to be able to articulate what they wanted back to the factory. It always was a role that wasn't going to be very strong or important and he once he realised that there was a limited amount he could contribute he wasn't happy.
He didn't contribute much to hiring Rubens either, RB approached Honda and the decision was taken much higher up than De Ferran to take him on board.
Its a loss for Honda but bearing in mind they've hired quite a few people recently from Williams and BMW its a little odd to say people are fleeing the team, if anything the team is growing in size not shrinking.
Well, bunsen hasn't fled yet - does that tell us something?
im not defending button but just stating a fact. yes, button chop and changed and got his fingers burnt but he's a hungry driver that wants success. pity he's not a little more aggressive on the track :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
as for ant being in with a shout of a Honda drive, think back to what was happening prior to the start of the 06 season when this was all going on behind the scenes. send a little email up to Hemel and clarify it if your unsure. ;)