Ferrari/McLaren Espionage Story [merged]

Nigel Stepney, who has served Ferrari for more than a decade, who memorably had his foot run over by Michael Schumacher in a botched pit-stop, who has been the manager of race operations for years, has been taken off race duty, told he may not leave the company for pastures new, and must serve out his contract, though he doesn't want to, has now been informed that he will be prosecuted, if Ferrari have their way, for crimes against the team.

It seems likely that the crime being alleged is espionage, in some form or other. Ferrari have dropped broad hints in the last year or so that they suspect they know who the top man was in the conspiracy to feed Ferrari secrets to Toyota. It now seems all but certain that Stepney is their suspect, and this very tragic and dramatic story is going to only get worse.

See Autosport for the latest on this. They broke the story today.

Read about this in Autosport this afternoon but it didnt mention Stepney. Thats quite a shock as I always thought he was a loyal Ferrari man. Is their anywere on the net that names him?

Here's the link :http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=31850

Wow! Let's make sure we don't speculate too much on this one (I know that's asking a lot.) PitPass said that Ferrari wouldn't give out the details.

I suppose they did not want him to leave because he would have been a gain for other teams, so nothing mean there.
But why should he sell infos to other teams? I suppose it wasn't just about the money.

Interesting. Why don't they just put him on gardening leave like every other sacked engineer of F1? That'd just bypass legal costs and the whole legal shenanigans.

Forgive my ignorance of these matters, but is there a criminal case to be heard in such circumstances? If so, what would it be? Is industrial espionage a criminal offence? I must say I've forgotten.

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Originally Posted by Gannex

Ferrari have dropped broad hints in the last year or so that they suspect they know who the top man was in the conspiracy to feed Ferrari secrets to Toyota.

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To Toyota? :eek:

Last year? :eek:

That means the stolen secrets are part of this year's car.

What's the name of this "spy"? Maxwell Smart?

here we go again :rolleyes:

The good old gossip section goes faster than any car I know :D

Besides, looking at the Toyota, if he had been accepting the brown bags, I think Toyota should sue him for breach of contract :D

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Originally Posted by Malllen

Interesting. Why don't they just put him on gardening leave like every other sacked engineer of F1? That'd just bypass legal costs and the whole legal shenanigans.

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You'll have to translate them yourselves (to long and have little time right now):
http://www.repubblica.it/2007/03/mot...i-esposto.html
http://www.gazzetta.it/Motori/Formul...tto_2206.shtml

They say it's about sabotage.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You'll have to translate them yourselves (to long and have little time right now):
http://www.repubblica.it/2007/03/mot...i-esposto.html
http://www.gazzetta.it/Motori/Formul...tto_2206.shtml

They say it's about sabotage.

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On a Belgian site they also talked about sabotage. I find that hard to believe but there's certainly something going on. Stepney was not happy with the fact that he wasn't promoted after Brawn left, and he was rumoured to be heading to another team, possibly Honda (Brawn was also linked to Honda).

On a delicate matter such as this we will have to wait and see what is really going on here instead of guessing.

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Originally Posted by Flat.tyres

here we go again :rolleyes:

The good old gossip section goes faster than any car I know :D

Besides, looking at the Toyota, if he had been accepting the brown bags, I think Toyota should sue him for breach of contract :D

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Er, not really. Just because you receive a rival's design and can build a copy of it does not mean that you understand it. The previous espionage incident involving Toyota F1 concerned the copying of large parts of the design of the Ferrari F2002 on the 2003 Toyota car. That car was not especially competitive either, which probably means that Toyota either did not copy it properly and/or did not understand how it worked in the first place. Exactly the same thing heppened in the late 1970's when Lotus pioneered ground effect in F1. In 1979 just about every team copied the Lotus, but the only team that succeeded was Williams with the FW07 (and even Lotus outsmarted themselves that year).

Repeat after me: Copying is not Understanding...

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Originally Posted by ioan

They say it's about sabotage.

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Apparently a strange substance was found in their tanks before monaco :s

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/depor...lpepudep_6/Tes

Some mysterious powder, that is being analyzed at the moment.

This may help to shed some light on the subject, though not much as it appears no one is saying much. http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39737

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Originally Posted by ioan

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But why should he sell infos to other teams? I suppose it wasn't just about the money.

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I am not suggesting at all that this concerns Nigel.

But to answer your question, depending on what you sell, especially Black Box secrets, details of new seamless change transmission designs and so on, the returns could be worth ginormous gazillions.

Then, also of course, if a team had a dodgy fuel tank with secret compartments and this particular team could do well by running underweight during quals and first and second stints, and this information could be sold to a rival who would then pass such information onto the FIA, then yeah!! this could be a reason why some mechanics who is fired by this team would want to pass on this information. Not that I am suggesting such a thing could possibly happen in F1, mind you. :rolleyes:

I don't want to sound like I am this genious or anything, but if we analize what papers are saying, this guy, Nigel, when nobody was around, walks towards the cars with a bag containing a mysterious powder in his hands. He dumps it in the tanks of these two cars, while is doing that, some of the powder falls around the cars and on the floor and after he's done...................HE DOES NOT CLEAN UP THE MESS????? How about leaving your business card behind? I am telling you, if he does not get arrested for damaging private property he should be arrested for STUPIDITY. That's quiete the plan. I want to sabotage these two cars but I'll leave some traces around, so that they can figure this out???????????????????? I don't get it.
OR if that's what really happend, they should arrest the Ferrari mechanics for stupidity, for seing this stuff around and not figuring it out. :) :) :)

PS Nigel Stepney has been notified by the SWA (Saboteur World Association) that he has been stripped of his membership and advised him to return/trash his online earned degree and get one from a real college. :) :)

When you read about this in the Bild, please give me the link. Ta!!

Bizarre to put it mildly! Well you get everything else in F1 so why not spying :D

Attorney rules out sabotage.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60078

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Originally Posted by ioan

Attorney rules out sabotage.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60078

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Two things in attorney's statement don't check out:

1. When he says: "From what I've learned, many types of offences can be identified, such as aggravated damage or sporting fraud" He is not mentioning an other charge: aggravated assault. That's because, according to the magistrate leading this investigation, sabotaging an engine (well...in this case at least two) you also jeopardize the life of the drivers that at the moment are driving these cars a such amazing speeds.

2. When he says: "On the matter of Stepney being unreachable, it must not be considered as an attempt to flee. I'm convinced he is on vacation and in the dark about this story'

If Stepney is on vacation and unaware of this situation, who hired his attorney? Ferrari?

An other interesting story that's developping amoung the Italian tifosi, is last year Schumacker's engine problem. It had not occured in 6 years, and all of the sudden, in a very crucial moment of the championship, his engine blows up in flames. Given the fact that Stepney then was still with the team, would he have any thing to do with it? The saga continues.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19303.html

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19303.html

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Good article. I could actually make this article better, I dare saying, by completing one the sentences in this article. Where it says: " Stepney started his F1 career at the age of 21" I would complete it by saying: " and he ended it at the age of 49". Still assuming that what is being reported by the media is correct, in fact, after all this, fair or not fair, I don't think there is going to be a team who would want to hire him anymore.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Attorney rules out sabotage.

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That's just misleading at best... HIS (Stepne's) attorney ruled out sabatoge.

Very ugly, very ugly. I am shocked.

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Originally Posted by GP-M3

That's just misleading at best... HIS (Stepne's) attorney ruled out sabatoge.

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There was link for those who know where to click. :rolleyes:

Breaking News: We found out where Stepny is: in the Filippines on vacation. He's planning to be back in July. It's not known how......eagerly....

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Originally Posted by GP-M3

That's just misleading at best... HIS (Stepne's) attorney ruled out sabatoge.

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Well, OJ's attorney ruled out murder. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Well, OJ's attorney ruled out murder. :rolleyes:

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Anybody know if Stepney is missing a glove? (BTW - OJ was framed by Ron and Nicole! LINK - http://www.joefrank.com/amember/free...p?request=5710)

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Forgive my ignorance of these matters, but is there a criminal case to be heard in such circumstances? If so, what would it be? Is industrial espionage a criminal offence? I must say I've forgotten.

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Certainly, BDunnell, industrial espionage can be criminal. In almost any jurisdiction, so probably even in Italy, the law criminalises theft, misappropriation, sale of stolen goods, and a host of other activities that a man would have to engage in to make money out of selling corporate secrets to his employer's competitor. These would all be civil wrongs as well, but the key in the Stepney case is the fact that Stepney's apartment was searched by police. The government does not search your apartment in a civil case.

The search tells us that Ferrari must have complained of a crime, and that the police and prosecutors took the criminal complaint seriously enough to get the Italian equivalent of a search warrant. So this is clearly a serious problem for Mr. Stepney, as he is facing possible criminal charges.

Stepney quickly fired his court-appointed counsel and hired his own lawyer. He then declared, through counsel, that he was anxious to cooperate with the Italian authorities in every way, answer their questions, and put his faith in the justice system. I would have advised him to keep his mouth firmly shut.

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Originally Posted by Gannex

in the Stepney case is the fact that Stepney's apartment was searched by police. The government does not search your apartment in a civil case.

The search tells us that Ferrari must have complained of a crime, and that the police and prosecutors took the criminal complaint seriously enough to get the Italian equivalent of a search warrant. So this is clearly a serious problem for Mr. Stepney, as he is facing possible criminal charges.

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Very interesting point. And the fact the he fired the court appointed attorney and hired his own is also very interesting. In my opinion it means that he is very worried (for something he did not do??) and he needs to hire the best attorney money can buy.

If anyone here hasn't read all the rumours posted above, then forget it, because it is all consolidated into the one report here: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...9-2722,00.html

It is almost as if the writer visited this forum, and collated all the rumours into the one article.

Hope it was worth it!!

I did read somewhere that it would take the Italian legal system more than a year to process this case; if there was nothing solid in it against Stepney, he would be finished within hte F1 community anyway.

I believe that Stepney wants to leave Ferrari and this accusation is Ferrari's way of keeping him around so they can discredit him to the point where no one else will want to hire him.

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Originally Posted by N. Jones

I believe that Stepney wants to leave Ferrari and this accusation is Ferrari's way of keeping him around so they can discredit him to the point where no one else will want to hire him.

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Absolutely impossible. To fabricate a criminal complaint is itself a crime, and a serious one. Not only is it a crime, it is also a tort, or civil wrong, and would leave Ferrari vulnerable to a massive claim by Stepney for damages. So Ferrari would stand to lose millions of pounds for conspiring as you suggest they conspired, and the individuals at Ferrari who were involved in the conspiracy would be facing serious jail time. Finally, for your conspiracy theory to be accurate, the Modena police would either have to be involved, or so gullible as to not be able to spot a frame-up when presented with it. More likely than your theory being correct, in my opinion, is the possibility that Elvis Presley secretly sabotaged the Ferraris at Monza. I hear he was seen in the paddock, hounding Lewis Hamilton for an autograph.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=31860

We don't know what Ferrari's complaint was so many of the rumours are far from believable.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

If anyone here hasn't read all the rumours posted above, then forget it, because it is all consolidated into the one report here: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...9-2722,00.html

It is almost as if the writer visited this forum, and collated all the rumours into the one article.

Hope it was worth it!!

I did read somewhere that it would take the Italian legal system more than a year to process this case; if there was nothing solid in it against Stepney, he would be finished within hte F1 community anyway.

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After reading the article I perceived the author af the article being pretty sure that Stepney is being accused of sabotage. That's interesting.
I found the following passage of interest as well:"Since the mysterious powder was discovered, the Ferrari team's performance has fallen in the past three grands prix." Is anybody agreeing with this article that Ferrari has been under performing because of Stepney's sabotage or not? I for one, I would think that there is a strong chance that's the case (I love intrigues). Mainly because I think that Ferrari has better things to do (going back into winning races, for example) than go hanging around at the police office without having strong evidence in their hands. That's serious stuff. I wonder how Kimi and Massa feel about it. Releived???

I read that article from The Australian, and I got the impression that the writer trawled through all the forums and websites and gathered all the silly rumours and consolidated it all into one article without verifying any of the rumours.

The worse part of all this, as I posted earlier, is that this whole saga will drag on for well over a year and Stepney's reputation will be damaged during this period by more rumours and inuendo.

I would challenge The Australian to say that they stand by their article.

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Originally Posted by Gannex

Absolutely impossible. To fabricate a criminal complaint is itself a crime, and a serious one. Not only is it a crime, it is also a tort, or civil wrong, and would leave Ferrari vulnerable to a massive claim by Stepney for damages. So Ferrari would stand to lose millions of pounds for conspiring as you suggest they conspired, and the individuals at Ferrari who were involved in the conspiracy would be facing serious jail time. Finally, for your conspiracy theory to be accurate, the Modena police would either have to be involved, or so gullible as to not be able to spot a frame-up when presented with it. More likely than your theory being correct, in my opinion, is the possibility that Elvis Presley secretly sabotaged the Ferraris at Monza. I hear he was seen in the paddock, hounding Lewis Hamilton for an autograph.

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Everyone knows that Ferrari, the Italian court system, Modena police, The FIA, The Vatican, etc. are run by the Mafia which is in turn run by Max and Bernie!! :)

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

. . .I perceived the author af the article being pretty sure that Stepney is being accused of sabotage. . . .Is anybody agreeing with this article that Ferrari has been under performing because of Stepney's sabotage or not? I for one. . . would think that there is a strong chance that's the case (I love intrigues). . .

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Ferrari have said very little about the nature of their complaint against Nigel Stepney, but a Ferrari spokesman has told Reuters that "it is not related to any event; it is related to his behaviour." A pattern of revealing Ferrari's secrets would be "behaviour", whereas sabotaging the cars at Monaco would, to my mind, be an "event". I take Ferrari's comment, therefore, to be a coy way of saying that the sabotage stories are completely untrue.

I also note that Stepney's original lawyer, Luca Brezigher, is quoted by Gazzetta dello Sport as having said "I can only say with certainty that Stepney is formally investigated, but the charge against him at the moment is rather unspecified. . . From what I've learned, many types of offences can be identified, such as aggravated damage or sporting fraud, but I'd rule out sabotage." Yet another strong hint, from a person in a position to know, that the sabotage story is untrue.

Far more likely, in my view, than the fanciful image of a sulking Nigel Stepney sprinkling mysterious powder into the Ferraris' fuel tanks, is the rather more traditional method of betraying one's employer: revealing secret information. That's what I believe Nigel Stepney is accused of having done, and if he did indeed do it, it might have been for money, or possibly to curry favour with a potential employer, or simply as a way of putting two fingers up to the face of a company that, he felt, had treated him worse than shabbily. Disgruntled employees often become careless to the point of recklessness with the company's confidences. We know Stepney was disgruntled. We know he is accused of criminal behaviour. We know Ferrari's secrets were systematically disclosed to Toyota by two employees while Stepney was in charge. We know the first lawyer for Stepney denied it is sabotage. I feel the evidence all points one way: Stepney is accused of espionage, not sabotage.

Or he may have been making out with the Boss's wife, or pinching money from the petty cash, or singing God save the Queen into the mike during the races, or ..................

Why don't we have a guess-a-thon? :rolleyes: