http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/stor...49-948,00.html
That pig is scary big :crazy:
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http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/stor...49-948,00.html
That pig is scary big :crazy:
But still didn't need to be killed, IMO.
I hope you don't eat any animals in your lifetime Eki. Tbh for an 11 year old to track an animal of that size for that long IS an achievement. Funnily enough I watched some nomadic Africans today on TV hunting. I'm sure most people wouldn't bat an eyelid at that.
Did they have supermarkets where they could get meat specially produced to be eaten? For people who have that privilege I see no need to go hunt wild animals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
It's bloody huge!
I think his parents are teaching him the wrong things :rolleyes:Quote:
"It feels really good," Jamison said. "It's a good accomplishment. I probably won't ever kill anything else that big."
Perhaps some people derive enjoyment out of it? Why must you be interested in motorsport. Don't you know that this causes the needless release of CO2 into the atmosphere? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Did you have to remind me and make me feel bad about it? Anyways, I can't understand how anyone can enjoy killing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I don't agree with killing stuff for the sake of it... I find it a bit disturbing really. I feel sorry for this huge pig. :(
My only question is what the hell are they going to do with it now? I mean they could eat it, but something of that size could never be esten in one go. You'd need an industrial size freezer or something :s
erm... what's the point of killing something for fun? where's the fun? :s
Eki, go on a hunting trip, kill something. cook it and then eat it and see how you feel then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
I've killed things before and eaten them. Only guinea fowl and pheasant though if I'm honest. But the feeling of satisfaction I got by killing and preparing my meal all by myself is something that will live with me forever.
As Richard Hammond of his adrenalin rush after doing the running of the bulls in Pamplona. "it's the caveman running from the sabre tooth tiger". That's the feeling people get when they hunt something. Just for the record I'm very very much against hunting something down just for it's skin or to mount it on your wall but to hunt something down to eat it is just fine by me. What right do people who walk into Sainsbury's or Tesco and pick up a steak have to criticise this boy without knowing if he went hunting for food or not. Do you eat eggs that come from battery hens where the hens are treated like **** and left to live in apalling conditions? Have you eaten Veal and do you know the conditions these poor animals live in just for you to have a tender cut of meat?
I've never heard so much self righteous twaddle in my life.
Here they hunt moose which are way bigger than that (1400 pounds for you imperial people). People take to a butcher to get some parts to freeze and to make sausage. Some families do that and eat it through the whole year (and still give some away to friends).Quote:
Originally Posted by GridGirl
I don't really see the difference between grabbind some steaks at the supermarket and going hunting yourself (besides the risk, but that's something else; I guess we won't criticize taking risks in a site where we talk about enjoying motorsport).
Quote:
Originally Posted by slinkster
:up:
people never learn :(
I used to date this girl who didn't like the fact that I hunted. She would say things like the above. Sometimes it's hard for me not to laugh when people say things like this. But I have to wonder if people actually think about what they're saying before they say it sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
When you say "meat specially produced to be eaten", do you mean manic depressive animals that commit suicide... or do you mean captive farm animals, shot so full of growth hormones and antibiotics that I'm amazed every human meat eater hasn't grown a third arm or developed cancer? Actual meat is not "produced". All of it comes from some two or four legged creature that either has his head bashed in, gets his throat cut or takes a bullet to the heart.
When Bessie is walking through the slaughter house and sees her old pal Marge take a knife to the neck, how is that any better than at least getting a running start, and in a boar's case, a "fighting" chance?
When I hunted, wild boars were my favorites too. Like the kid, I hunted with a pistol as well. So you pretty much had to get up close & personal to do the deed... sometimes crawling on your stomach to get within 15 or 20 yards. So if you screwed up or missed your shot, Mr. Russian Boar and his pals got their chance to eat you, instead of the other way around. Now, Mr. Javelina is a different sort of pig. He probably won't eat you... at least not all at once. He's more into chewing on you for a bit, and making you regret that you disturbed his nap... buried under the leaves that you stepped on. Barnyard hogs, on the other hand, have the guy, who they thought was their lifelong buddy, walk up to them and put a .22 hollowpoint into their brains. "Meat specially produced to be eaten", eh? :dozey:
As big as that thing is, who knows what the meat will taste like. But I read the story somewhere else, and the family seemed to have every intention of eating it. My rule was, if I wasn't going to dress it out, I wouldn't shoot it. But wild boars in this area (and where the kid killed his hog) feed on acorns. Anyone who likes ham and sausage, none is any better than a wild boar fattened on acorns.
In another article I read on this said the pig would be made into sausage, about 700 pounds of sausage. I don't have a problem with hunting, but a 11 year old walking around with a .50 caliber handgun does make me wonder how good an idea this is.Quote:
Originally Posted by GridGirl
Why? If using a handgun, one probably wouldn't hunt a wild boar with anything smaller than a .44 Magnum. The chest and vital organ area on boars is protected by a heavy layer of cartilage and gristle or scar tissue. I once saw a 12 gauge slug do nothing more than bounce off a large boar (maybe 350 pounds) at close range. To get this large, I imagine this hog would have had one helluva chest plate and would have laughed at a .44 Magnum... especially since the .50 didn't do much. I didn't read about where his shot placement was, but I believe I read that it took the kid 8 shots to bring this monster down. Unless you get under the chest plate, you're basically shooting something with a natural bullet proof vest.Quote:
Originally Posted by DBell
This kid wasn't exactly "little" - he clearly hasn't missed too many meals. But I am somewhat surprised that he could handle a .50 caliber revolver. And that he shot it 8 times? That's quite a wrist busting handcannon for even a big adult male.
mmmmmm... Sausages. :lips:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
You forgot my favorite.
Sudden severe electric shock leading to death and or rupture of the heart, blood vessels in the brain and some other organs. I'll never forget the series of images of watching my uncle use his shock prod on a 350 lbs farm hog. Arguably this method is the most humane way to kill the animal as there is no need for fear or for the animal to be pinned and it is about 99.5% effective (better rate than most of the other methods). But believe me, there is nothing humane about mass agricultural food production.
I have no problem with hunting. Man has eliminated most of the natural predators as well as destabilized the habitat. We've seen tens of thousands of Deer literally starve to death over a period of 2 years sometimes passing on genetic defects to offspring due to overgrazing around here.
To all the anti-hunting people. The kid hunted a boar, a big boar at that. You have to have a lot of tracking skills, determination, bravery, and patience (boar will charge you and a boar that big isn't going down with one shot as soon as you pull the trigger the first time you have a reasonable chance of being mamed or worse). As for the validity of the story, I'm not a small person, and I am comfortable with guns from a shooting perspective, last time I fired a .50 cal handgun as a large adult male it had a wicked kick, the thought of firing off 8 quick rounds with accuracy surprises me.
I'm not a hunter but I have friends and family that are. People that hunt for the pure sport of it (trophy hunters that only want the trophy for instance) disgust me. I can respect people that hunt for the enjoyment and intend to fully utilize the animal. This family intends to use as much as the animal as possible, I'm sad to see such an impressive beast give up its life but this is the order of things as it were and I don't have a problem with it.
But really, too all the self righteous anti-hunting people that still eat meat, go to a slaughter house someday, it will change how you look at things.
No, I mean animals that are taken care for and fed for some time and then they take care and feed you for awhile. It's a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" deal (unfortunately farm animals aren't these days often taken that well care of since people want to maximize their profit). What have you done for wild animals except killed them so that they should feed you? Even if you kill wild animals for food, I don't think it's something to brag about. I don't see butchers on front page news bragging how they just killed the biggest cow ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
I would rather have seen a video of that pig alive than see a picture of the animal dead.
The problem I have with hunting is that:
A) In the western world it is NOT necessary to hunt your own food. We have evolved our civilisation well beyond that point. In a very real sense we "manufacture" our food by breeding animals for food. There are problems enough with inhumane animal farming without adding the slaughter of wild animals to the list.
B) The excuse that it takes great skill to track an animal does not override the fact that the animal does not need to be killed at the end of the hunt. You can do all the tracking and what-not and take a video or picture of the animal instead of shooting it. The hunter gets his "kill" along with proof and the animal gets to live. Why blow it's head off with a high powered weapon?
Sometimes wild animals need to be shot. Ferral animals are a problem the world over and these animals need to be culled as they damage the environment that they never should have been in, in the first place. But hunting and culling are two very different things. Sometimes hunters satisfy their bloodlust by combining the two and I have no problem with that, though I donlt understand this need to kill something.
In this case, that pig did not need to be shot. I'm sure the kid could have obtained all the pork sausages he could eat at the supermarket. I find it disturbing that a child is even in that position and has developed a lust for killing a such a young age.
Let me pose a question to all the pro-hunters. Do you agree with the Japanese whaling practices? I'm assuming that you do. After all, what's the difference between shooting a pig with a gun or shooting a whale with a harpoon?
True. I remember when I saw an otter in the wild for the first and only time in my life. It came about 5 meters to me before turning away. I didn't need to kill it to feel good about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
Eki,Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
If you have a drug problem you know we're always here to talk about it with you and help you through this tough time. I can only assume that you do have a drug problem when I see you post something as preposterous as that. There is no way that a sheep is getting from us what we get from it and you must be smoking something pretty potent to be seeing things that way.
Hawkmoon. There is a big difference between whaling and hunting a pig. The japanese are hunting something that is endangered and I will never agree with the hunting of endangered species. That includes hunting Otters Eki......
L5 I think you made the point best. Hawkmoon, I find it enormously hilarious that you call keeping tens of thousands of chickens in sheds in close proximity and pumping them full of hormones, "civilised" while a person going out and "manufacturing" his own food naturally and organically with his own gun is something savage. Funny! Really funny!
No Daniel, there's no difference. Whales are only endangered because humans hunted them into that state. The fact that pigs aren't doesn't mean that the motives behind them being hunted are any different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Daniel, western civilisation has evolved to the point that hunting and gathering is no longer necessary for subsistence. Hunting today is nothing more than sport and it's a "sport" that I have a problem with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I stated that there are enough problems with the way we keep domestic animals without adding inflicting pain on wild animals as well. I agree that there is nothing civilised with some farming practices.
People choose to go hunting. They don't need to do it. They do it because they enjoy killing animals. It's something that I don't think I will ever understand.
Hawkmoon. I demand you stop the suffering of animals now. Stop eating meat and get your iron and protein from tablets or plants.
You don't need to eat meat. You choose to eat meat.
Hawkmoon, get a grip. There are tribes in Africa, Asia and South American that still regularly hunt down animals and kill them. That's their way of life and they enjoy the fact that this is their life. Is their way of life wrong? Should they accept your interpretation of the "western" style of life and move to a city, hold down a job, buy food from a supermarket, develop alcohol and drug problems or should they live life the way they want to and respect the land and the animals that allow them to live this way rather than rape and pillage as us "civilised" westerners do?
I said I don't agree with whaling so don't try and make it sound like I do. Farming and hunting must always be done in a sustainable manner. If you don't like hunting I hope you've never gone hunting for fish with bait and a rod. I really hope you never do this or that you've never gone into woolworths and buy wild fish that was hunted and caught and prepared for you.
Hunting is NOT sport. Hunting is going out and killing something so you can eat it. Sport shooting is going out and shooting something for it's tusks, horns, other ornamental apendages or just for the sake of it and leaving it there to rot. Hunting is no different to going to Woolworths and picking up that bright red rubbish they try to pass off as Beef (beef should be a deep red colour if it's been hung for long enough) except for the fact that it's more satisfying. Think of it like taking your car to the garage or fixing it yourself. It's the fact that the human race has devolved into a race of wimpy namby pamby people who cry when they break a nail and can't stomach the harsh reality that for us to eat stuff that stuff has to die and it's not as easy and clean as picking an apple from a tree.
Hunting is also one of the ways that wildlife population like deer and boar are controlled here. I guess it would be better to let populations grow out of control and have hunger and disease threaten the beast, not to mention the people that will be killed by hitting deer with their cars. I don't know about Australia, but here deer and pigs are everywhere. My wife's ex hit a deer last year and was luckily OK. I came within a few feet of hitting a big buck myself last month.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
There is a huge difference between an endangered species and licensed hunting that helps maintain healthy wildlife populations.
OK Daniel, if you make a distinction between hunting and sport shooting, that's fine. I don't, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
I think were going to end up arguing in circles but answer me this. What is it, exactly, that you find enjoyable about killing animals? You don't need to do it for food and you can stalk and animal without killing it so why does the animal need to die?
Please respond to my post in full and don't skirt around issues that I bring up :)
At the same time people kill wolves, bears, etc that would normally keep the deer and boar populations in check.Quote:
Originally Posted by DBell
But they would just kill your pet dogs and sheep and we can't have that now can we? ;)
For the record, i don't mind people hunting to keep certain species in check, but if done for a sport seems bit unfair if done with equipment other than rocks , and if done to quench one's thirst for blood i'd suggest going paintballing or computer games instead.
Not if they have enough deers and boars to eat. I'm sure they'd prefer a tender deer or a juicy pig over a bony dog.Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
OK.... :)
We all do things we don't need to do, including eating meat. I have no problem with eating meat and love a good burger. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
These folk are doing it out of need, not enjoyment. I'm willing to bet that if there was a Woolworths in the Amazon it would do good business. Hunting is a chore and if you don't have to do it to survive, you don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
No, I don't go fishing and find it interesting that it's not considered a blood sport which I think it clearly is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
You say you don't agree with whaling because they are endangered yet they are only endangered because we hunted them to that point. If they weren't endangered would you have a problem with it? Should we only stop shooting things when they become endangered?
Semantics, Daniel. It's the end justifying the means. How is it any more noble to kill an animal for food that you could get from a butcher than it is to kill one for a trophy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
How's that? :D
I have no problem with people hunting, I do have a real problem with an 11 year old boy running around with a .50 callibre pistol though :\
I agree ;) It's been suggested that the boy is "bloodthirsty" and none of us can say whether or not he is. Firstly as people have pointed out that pig had a good chance of killing the boy so it is as he said an "achievement" and as there aren't many things bigger than it around he isn't going to kill anything bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
I don't go out and kill things just for fun or because I'm bored. I go online and kill other people. It's a lot more fun and a lot less messy. I love paintball too! But give me the chance to go hunting for a nice meal and I like to do that too on occasion but it's something I can take or leave to be honest.
I wonder how many people would be outraged had they seen this young boy catch a record sized fish :mark: I mean a fish would have just been swimming around all big and then he could have caught it and killed it. But strangely enough this wouldn't have raised any eyebrows as fishing and killing wild fish is totally acceptable. Double standards perhaps?
I didn't suggest that there was some kind of inherent nobility in hunting your own food. I simply said it is more satisfying for some people to do it themselves rather than picking up a piece of meat in a foam container with cling film over it. As I said before some people would prefer to fix their own car than to have someone else doing it as that gives them a great sense of satisfaction. I for one will seldom buy a photo when I can probably go out and take a photo that is just as good if not better than some of the crap out there. That gives me a sense of satisfaction which buying something just wouldn't. In a sense it IS more noble to kill something for food rather than just as a trophy because killing for a trophy is wasteful whereas killing for food is resourceful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
You say that we all do things that we don't need to do. Some people listen to Kylie Minogue. Personally I think she's unecessary but that doesn't mean that I think people who listen to Kylie are wrong or that they should stop doing that. It's their thing and while I don't like it, it has minimal impact upon me and it's their choice.
Hunting is a chore. Then why do these people do it? :mark: You'll find a lot of people living in normal brick and mortar houses with supermarkets nearby do it all over the world. Why did this boy trek for 3 hours through hilly terrain when he could have just played a computer game or gone to a supermarket to get a pork sausage? Jeez I wonder why......
I fail to see the difference of going out into the wild and finding a pig and shooting it or going up to it with a prod and electrocuting the hell out of it. Net result is the same either way yet at least this pig had a chance to fight back.......
Somehow I always cannot see the point when people are against hunting and in the same time eat burgers from McDonalds. Which one is more cruel to an animal, live whole life in captivity and end up being a burger or live life in natural conditions and end up being a game stew?
Shooting a bird from the forest is the most ecological way of getting food. No, it is not necessary, but it is ecological. Growing animals in the farms isn't. I honestly don't know a single man who goes hunting just because they enjoy killing. That would be just plain stupid. I know that they hunt because that is something their fathers and grandfathers used to do.
Animals hunt other animals as well, you know. And last time I checked human was an animal too...
Similarily, I have a good friend who goes on an annual deer hunt. Him and his two friends may spend an entire day finding, tracking and taking down a single deer. They gut the beast in the woods (the innards and non-edible parts are left for the coyetes, wovles, bears... to finnish off), haul (by human power... no quads) the carcass out and bring it to a local butcher to cut up. One deer produces enough meat for several families for a year. Heck, I still have some chops in the freezer :D .Quote:
Originally Posted by tinchote
There are almost no restrictions on deer hunting around these parts. It is the only realistic way to keep the populations in check. Man has encroached upon the wild habitat to the point where the numbers of natural predators (wolves, bears) have dwindled. Without the annual deer hunt there would be an over-population of deer, which would in turn affect the rest of the ecosystem :mark: .
I'm not sure, however, why this Aussie fellow killed this pig...? Yes, I agree that it was an impressive feat, but it sounds like he did it simply for pleasure, and got some kind of perverse enjoyment from it :s
Why, Carl? As far as outside observers are concerned, what does it matter whether it's a .50, a .45 or a .44? Where I live, it is illegal to hunt big game, if using handgun ammunition, with anything smaller than a .38 - and no one actually hunts with a .38. The smallest practical handgun caliber for hunting is the .44 Magnum. I use a .45 AutoMag, simply because I prefer automatics over the increased recoil inherent in revolvers. With all due respect to you, Carl... my guess is people only have a "problem" with the .50 because they think of this as a military caliber, and believe there to be something "more deadly or dangerous", versus a .44 Magnum or .45 Magnum. If I saw a kid in the woods with a big hand cannon, I'd figure he was just another hunter. If I saw a kid (alone) ANYWHERE with a Glock .40 or 9mm, I might prepare myself for a problem with him. One is for hunting, one is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlMetro
Daniel has done an amazing job of making each point that I would have made. Bravisimo, Daniel! So I leave the floor to him. And I would only reinforce his point about hunting for meat vs. sport hunting. Sport hunting includes animals which are basically inedible, or not typically eaten. Personally, I don't agree with that sort of hunting. But whether I agree with that category or not, there is a real difference.
There are so many people nowadays that there aren't enough wild animals to feed us and the farm animals wouldn't live long without humans anyway. As long as farm animals are well taken care off and given a decent life I don't mind too much (sadly they most often aren't these days because people try to maximize their profits).Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodeye
I'd guess that Carl mostly objects giving a firearm to an 11 year old child, not the size of the gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
Noble? The primary reason many people eat wild meat is that it tastes better. And especially in the Appalachians, there are still people who rely on gardens and wild game. They live much as they did in the 1930's. Contrary to popular world belief, not every American has a Walmart next door to their home, which they load up their 1.9 kids to visit, in their 14 mpg SUV. Many hunters support poverty programs such as Hunters For The Hungry. So, it's not noble, but it is sometimes necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
Trophy animals (in the strictest sense) are seldom killed for meat. The aim and goal is to preserve the head... maybe a tender loin (at most), but often the rest is left for scavengers. So that meat is wasted. From my upbringing to my current profession, waste is something of a sin.
BTW, I'm not sure where you live, but what butcher shop sells (actual) wild boar meat? The online shops that sell "wild" boar meat are usually just selling the meat from captured ferral pigs. And if anyone would like to see the capture techniques for them... let's just say that many of the piglets end up with 3 legs in the end. I hunt (or I use to), but I don't/can't eat veal. I've seen too many veal operations over the years. Go figure...