2023 - Race 1 Bahrain

It is on like donkey kong - 2023!

Coming out of the 3 days of Practice it seems:

1. Red Bull - looked the fastest, nailed reliabilty

Next Level

2. Mercedes
3. Ferrari

These teams are interchangeable. Ferrari supposedly have fixed their engine reliability. Mercedes have fixed their porpoising. They were both probably holding back some last weekend.

Some are crowning Red Bull a little early. Mercedes probably has the best driver lineup on the grid, so if they have a competitive car watch out. Ferrari were able to challenge RB in qualifying, but didn't have the reliability and strategy decisions to win.

Next Level

4. Aston Martin
5. Alfa Romeo
6. Alpine

Aston Martin is the golden child of practice with many pundits believing they could be fighting for 3. It does sound like Stroll is much more hurt than is being acknowledged. So the question is Vettel a possible option if their car is really this good or will they leave it to their reserve driver?

Alpine - Their performance was not really this good, but some are confident in them.

Next Level

7. Alpha Tauri
8. Haas
9. McLaren
10. williams

McLaren is the big loser here. It looks like they have major problems.

Word is going around that Stroll broke 1 or maybe even both wrists in his accident.

Honeymoon has worn off between Gasley and Ocon - they refused to travel on a train together for some event.

Quite a few subtle changes showing up on cars already, and it's the first race. Soon we will see if any of the big guns wheels out something they kept quiet in testing.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a quicker qually than last year. They all improved in testing, and even with the possibility of sandbagging, testing times were about a second quicker on fastest laps for some teams. Where they all shake out might surprise us, as the usual "who is testing what" scenarios were in place. Tires seem to be doing well, so race sims held up well, but can they be pushed even harder?



ETA: Lance is at the track and now some are claiming he will be racing.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

ETA: Lance is at the track and now some are claiming he will be racing.

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He made it through first day of practice. Though there is indications that his hand was bothering him. But if their car is good as it looks, I can see why he wouldn't want to miss a weekend.

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Originally Posted by F1nKS

He made it through first day of practice. Though there is indications that his hand was bothering him. But if their car is good as it looks, I can see why he wouldn't want to miss a weekend.

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Watching those onboards, I think they are really pushing it to race Lance. He obviously still doesn't have the full mobility, and openly stated he can't hold certain lines due to his wrists. The problem is they have a choice of push their luck with Lance or go with the unknown. If Lance can get a good result it's a big moral thing for the team, even if they have to put Drugovich in the car for a race or two later.



Though Q3, it looks like there might be some truth to the AM hype train. But we won't know for sure until the cars all uncork it during qualification. I expect some to open up and finally show their real hand, but I'm not sure if AM will be one of those teams. But it has certainly got my interest enough that I want to know.

As always, qually vs race pace, who can get and keep the tires in the right windows, along with driver performance and strategy calls will all start coming to light soon. I'm hoping there is still some shaking up to do and that the delta in teams between the front and mid pack tighten up. And I'd really like to see the mid pack margins reduce even more, or in a perfect world even the margins at the front be reduced even more.

It is frustrating at Ferrari at the moment as Leclerc bows out of Q3 before the end. Gremlin in the Ferrari showing up. All signs suggest that Redbull shall run away with the 2023 double titles with ease; reliability allowing of course. It is clear the F1M has got the regulations wrong as it is failing to deliver on its promise of closer racing. The race tomorrow shall be the usual procession with Redbull racing off into the distance.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

It is clear the F1M has got the regulations wrong as it is failing to deliver on its promise of closer racing.

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Data presents a different picture. If you look at the Bahrain gap times between the Top 10 qualifying, you see that things have gotten tighter.

Here are results for Q3 Gap times from pole position.

2021 (2023)
2. - 0.4 sec (0.1 sec)
3. - 0.6 sec (0.3 sec)
4. - 0.7 sec (0.4 sec)
5. - 0.8 sec (0.6 sec)
6. - 0.9 sec (0.6 sec)
7. - 1.0 sec (0.7 sec)
8. - 1.2 sec (1.1 sec)
9. - 1.3 sec (1.3 (sec)

That works out about 24% improvement in gap times for all of Q3. Position 1-6 gap times were improved by 37%.

If you look at Q1, there is very significant improvement in position 11 thru 20. In 2021, these positions average 1.5 seconds behind the No. 1 position. In 2023, they average dropped to 0.8 seconds behind. Number 20th, went from 2.2 seconds behind to 1.2 seconds behind.

Anecdotally, I also think there is closer racing (based on 2022 results), but it was more seen in the mid-field than in the front of the grid. This was because it looks like RBR nailed it, while Ferrari was close, but their reliability, strategy, and tire wear held them back. Mercedes screwed their design up (and still have not figured it out).

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

All signs suggest that Redbull shall run away with the 2023 double titles with ease; reliability allowing of course.

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Many thought the same about ferrari at this point last year.

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Originally Posted by F1nKS

Data presents a different picture. If you look at the Bahrain gap times between the Top 10 qualifying, you see that things have gotten tighter.

Here are results for Q3 Gap times from pole position.

2021 (2023)
2. - 0.4 sec (0.1 sec)
3. - 0.6 sec (0.3 sec)
4. - 0.7 sec (0.4 sec)
5. - 0.8 sec (0.6 sec)
6. - 0.9 sec (0.6 sec)
7. - 1.0 sec (0.7 sec)
8. - 1.2 sec (1.1 sec)
9. - 1.3 sec (1.3 (sec)

That works out about 24% improvement in gap times for all of Q3. Position 1-6 gap times were improved by 37%.

If you look at Q1, there is very significant improvement in position 11 thru 20. In 2021, these positions average 1.5 seconds behind the No. 1 position. In 2023, they average dropped to 0.8 seconds behind. Number 20th, went from 2.2 seconds behind to 1.2 seconds behind.

Anecdotally, I also think there is closer racing (based on 2022 results), but it was more seen in the mid-field than in the front of the grid. This was because it looks like RBR nailed it, while Ferrari was close, but their reliability, strategy, and tire wear held them back. Mercedes screwed their design up (and still have not figured it out).

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Unfortunately, you are comparing 2021 times with 2023 times, of course, you would see massive improvements. Besides, it is race times that really matter here. And Verstappen would rocket off from the lines leaving the Ferraris to battle with Alonso in the Aston. I predict that the race winner would be at least 30 seconds ahead at the end of the race which would essentially prove my point.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

Many thought the same about ferrari at this point last year.

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Well, we hope the penalty on Redbull hurt them enough to bring them backwards into a fight with Ferrari for the title. Not backward for them to be out of the running but enough to have to fight hard to win it. We want to see some hard-fought battles for wins, don't we?

Brilliant move by Fred on the boss

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Lec'!!!!! Oh my!

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Fred on for a Mc'Podium?

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Fred: "bye bye" :sailor:
Fred: "bye bye" :dork:

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Never mind the Redbulls, Fernando Alonso was the star of this race. Aston Martin has real pace and could be a thorn in Redbull's side if he gets among them. Noticeably is that the Aston is faster than the Ferraris in race trim. It could be an interesting season afterall.

I was very glad to see Aston and Alonso take the podium on merit.

Very disappointed, not seeing a Ferrari on the podium. Still lots of work to do to compete vs Red Bull…

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Unfortunately, you are comparing 2021 times with 2023 times, of course, you would see massive improvements.

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Nope, I am comparing gap times between drivers. Which is what the rules were meant to do which is narrow the gap. In Q1 all the announcers were remarking how from the top to bottom that gap was almost second.

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Besides, it is race times that really matter here.

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The observations from people in f1, the drivers and all the media pundits that "following" is much easier and there was some great battles last year during the races that would not have occured prior to the rule changes. We also saw it today with Alonso. His tire pre-rule change would have been eaten up, but he was able to fight with Hamilton and Sainz, lap after lap. Pre-rule change you had one lap to get past, or you tires would be ruined.

2021 Bahrain - 75 overtakes
2022 Bahrain - 131 overtakes

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And Verstappen would rocket off from the lines leaving the Ferraris to battle with Alonso in the Aston.

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Has nothing to do with the rules. RBR nailed their design, and Max is just a special driver. Mercedes continues double down on failed design. Aston Martin and Alonso are closing the gap.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

Many thought the same about ferrari at this point last year.

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I think I heard that nobody that has won the Bahrain race went on to win the championship. Ferrari will bounce back and are a threat. Aston Martin is clearly have some good pace, Alonso race got a little disrupted when his teammate hit him on the first lap.

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Originally Posted by F1nKS

Nope, I am comparing gap times between drivers. Which is what the rules were meant to do which is narrow the gap. In Q1 all the announcers were remarking how from the top to bottom that gap was almost second.



The observations from people in f1, the drivers and all the media pundits that "following" is much easier and there was some great battles last year during the races that would not have occured prior to the rule changes. We also saw it today with Alonso. His tire pre-rule change would have been eaten up, but he was able to fight with Hamilton and Sainz, lap after lap. Pre-rule change you had one lap to get past, or you tires would be ruined.

2021 Bahrain - 75 overtakes
2022 Bahrain - 131 overtakes




Has nothing to do with the rules. RBR nailed their design, and Max is just a special driver. Mercedes continues double down on failed design. Aston Martin and Alonso are closing the gap.

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Sorry you are missing the point and statistics is just numbers.

Nice drive by Sargeant. It was good to see an American on the grid for the 1st time in a while. He did a decent job and didn't embarrass himself as some have done in the past.

I also had the pleasure of missing the crash fest in St Pete today. A worthwhile miss.

Great race overall for a season opener IMHO.

Max couldn't be touched, but had the chance to get away. Losing some positions at the start kept Checo fighting for 25 laps or so, and made it apparent that the Ferrari can get in the mix and at least make things difficult for the RB. Once clear of Leclerc, I think both Perez and Max just had to worry about tire management for the rest of the race.

As is the norm it seems, Sainz just can't keep pace with Leclerc, and gets into his own head easily. While he was moaning about not being able to defend without another stop, he could have been fighting and had enough left to defend from Hamilton if his head was in it. While Charles was certainly on for a podium until the car failure, Sainz was caught up and passed by Fred, and only a couple seconds ahead of Lewis at race end.

As for the Mercs, much better than many expected. I think George was quicker at first, but stuck behind Lewis he didn't do his tires any favors. He should have pushed the issue and tried to pass on track, or backed off. But in the end not bad for Mercedes overall.


Bottas quietly in the points without much notice. A freaking Williams IN THE POINTS at a season opener with a first race rookie in 12th in the car. Yuki just out of the points. Yeah, the deck has shuffled some for sure. Hopefully it continues though the season.


As for AM, nothing short of amazing for a first race. As expected Fred drove the wheels off the car and seemed to have not lost much of anything in racecraft. His big "twitch" moment on the first pass attempt on Lewis still has me wondering what happened though. It looked like he expected contract and twitched hard to the left. Either way, the sly old guy got it done in style. And for someone that seemed maybe unfit to race Lance did well other than the early contact. I suspect that could have gone bad in a hurry, and the young Stroll will make no favors with either Fred or Dad if he keeps doing those kinds of things. But overall barring that setback, Fred was the second fastest car in race pace.



That kind of jump in performance from AM proves that it can be done, and the "big teams" still have to get it right to stay up front. Between that, the tightening up of the midfield to smaller delta's, and the ability to follow and attack over dozens of laps rather than a couple shows me the new regs are doing exactly what they were trying to do. RB was lucky to get it so right the first year that they maintain pace for now, but the cuts will hurt them with development. Ferrari and others made progress, but I think both Ferrari and Merc are going to be haunted with past mistakes they have stuck with. For the reds it seems to be more reliability and some driver issues with Sainz, for Merc is just seems they got it wrong last year and stuck with it.


Next race could rally change things though. More high speed corners, less forgiving of those loose today, and a new environment to see what cars shine where.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Sorry you are missing the point and statistics is just numbers.

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And you are poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

Between that, the tightening up of the midfield to smaller delta's, and the ability to follow and attack over dozens of laps rather than a couple shows me the new regs are doing exactly what they were trying to do. RB was lucky to get it so right the first year that they maintain pace for now, but the cuts will hurt them with development. Ferrari and others made progress, but I think both Ferrari and Merc are going to be haunted with past mistakes they have stuck with. For the reds it seems to be more reliability and some driver issues with Sainz, for Merc is just seems they got it wrong last year and stuck with it.


Next race could rally change things though. More high speed corners, less forgiving of those loose today, and a new environment to see what cars shine where.

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Well, that is my point also, the new Regulation is effective in the midfield where it is now closer than ever. At the sharp end of the grid, it is grossly ineffective as Redbud can once again waltz away with both championship titles. I think the gap they have now is big enough for them to weather the effects of the development penalty that they have to endure this season.

Ferrari has turned out to be disappointing. And Mercedes has seriously lost the plot. Unfortunately, Aston Martin is still a long way off the Redbull pace, but l think they can get closer when they properly unleash the full potential of that car. The interesting battle at the sharp end is who is going to be runners-up to Redbull this season. My money is on Aston Martin with Ferrari duking it out with Mercedes for 3rd.

I think Ferrari may slip backwards due to the absence of a technical director, as the in-season development battle ensues. Mercedes would certainly get stronger and maybe win a race or two, but realistically, l cannot see them winning any of the 2023 championship titles at the moment. It would take something special to turn the W14 into a championship-winning car from a 0.635s deficit. It would be particularly brilliant if Aston Martin can win one of the titles.

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Originally Posted by F1nKS

And you are poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

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As usual, like a petulant child, you result to insults

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

As usual, like a petulant child, you result to insults

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You dismissed a post that was using statistics to prove a point (which it did very well) , by saying that he missed the point because statistics don't matter .

Perhaps , with a moment to think , you might understand why this was a touch irksome ?

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Sorry you are missing the point and statistics is just numbers.

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That is some comment to make on a F1 forum, especially by someone who normally places such high value on stats/numbers... when it suits.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

You dismissed a post that was using statistics to prove a point (which it did very well) , by saying that he missed the point because statistics don't matter .

Perhaps , with a moment to think , you might understand why this was a touch irksome ?

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Sorry Baggie, l did not dismiss the stats. The stats did not remotely address the point l was making. Besides, it was a poor use of stats. Comparing 2022 stats to 2023 stats would be a more relevant comparison. More so, applying it to the various tier of the grid would also be more representative of the state of affairs. Just quoting stats randomly says nothing to any intelligent person.

But of course, you want to give support to your mate, l get it.

One race doesn't make a season, and speaking only for myself I don't care who comes out as the winners and losers. While early indications shows that RB should still be on top, that can change. But if the AM move up continues, then it's proving that major changes can be made in a single year of development, and other teams can do the same if they get it right in their development path. This doesn't mean it will always happen, it just gives the teams a chance to have more CFD and wind tunnel time.

Teams that got by with lesser resources in the unlimited budget years should have some chance to catch up, but they still need the funds to reach the cost cap. The teams that were throwing huge amounts at problems might suffer, it depends on how budget efficient they were in the past. For all we know Williams will end up a top 3 team, and RB and Ferrari will be middle of the pack. But since RB and Ferrari were the ones to get the new formula right from the start, others will have to play catch up with them.


RB have only taken both titles last year, unless we want to go back all the way to 2013. The new regs don't guarantee a new constructor or driver will win every year, or that margins through the field will always be a tenth of a second. They simply try to somewhat level the playing field for lesser teams to come to grips with things and build more competitive cars.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

One race doesn't make a season, and speaking only for myself I don't care who comes out as the winners and losers. While early indications shows that RB should still be on top, that can change. But if the AM move up continues, then it's proving that major changes can be made in a single year of development, and other teams can do the same if they get it right in their development path. This doesn't mean it will always happen, it just gives the teams a chance to have more CFD and wind tunnel time.

Teams that got by with lesser resources in the unlimited budget years should have some chance to catch up, but they still need the funds to reach the cost cap. The teams that were throwing huge amounts at problems might suffer, it depends on how budget efficient they were in the past. For all we know Williams will end up a top 3 team, and RB and Ferrari will be middle of the pack. But since RB and Ferrari were the ones to get the new formula right from the start, others will have to play catch up with them.


RB have only taken both titles last year, unless we want to go back all the way to 2013. The new regs don't guarantee a new constructor or driver will win every year, or that margins through the field will always be a tenth of a second. They simply try to somewhat level the playing field for lesser teams to come to grips with things and build more competitive cars.

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I think you describe my favourite part of the new regulations very well. There are good parts that is apparently working. Some might suggest that Merccedes is suffering because they are adapting to working with a tight budget. And Aston Martin which is based on Force India that were masters of punching above its weight with a slender budget is doing better for that inherent reason.

But realistically, it would take a massive injection of funds for any midfield team to compete with the big three as we have seen with Aston Martin and we are likely to see with Sauber when Audi takes over. The cost cap is still high enough for there to be a two-tier grid, but it is low enough to prevent the top teams from spending their way out of poor design choices. They now pay dearly with ignominy when they get it wrong like we are seeing with Mercedes. But that said, it is great that Aston has joined the top tier and Alonso is doing wonders with that car.

I think the 2023 F1 championship is there for Redbull to lose if they mess up. Even with their handicap, they are still very likely to be untouchable. Ferrari and Mercedes do not inspire any confidence at this stage of the season. They may improve and try to capitalize on the Redbull penalty, but l believe the penalty may not hurt Redbull enough for them to challenge for the championship. But this is Formula One, anything is possible.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Sorry Baggie, l did not dismiss the stats. The stats did not remotely address the point l was making. Besides, it was a poor use of stats. Comparing 2022 stats to 2023 stats would be a more relevant comparison. More so, applying it to the various tier of the grid would also be more representative of the state of affairs. Just quoting stats randomly says nothing to any intelligent person.

But of course, you want to give support to your mate, l get it.

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Do not try to intimate that I was altering my opinion to "support" a mate .

I was not , and would not do such a thing .
I would support you if I felt you deserved it , not because you are a "mate" , but only if I felt you were right .

In this case , you were rude and offensive .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Do not try to intimate that I was altering my opinion to "support" a mate .

I was not , and would not do such a thing .
I would support you if I felt you deserved it , not because you are a "mate" , but only if I felt you were right .

In this case , you were rude and offensive .

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I disagree, maybe l don't like being referred to as a " poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect", have you thought about that? Or is your mates the only one allowed to be insulting to everyone else.

I shall take my leave, l don't have to do this.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

I disagree, maybe l don't like being referred to as a " poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect", have you thought about that? Or is your mates the only one allowed to be insulting to everyone else.

I shall take my leave, l don't have to do this.

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Take the criticism .
Understand the criticism .
Then , come back and make better posts .

There is no need to leave completely .
There is a need to understand why you find people reacting they way they do to your posts .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Take the criticism .
Understand the criticism .
Then , come back and make better posts .

There is no need to leave completely .
There is a need to understand why you find people reacting they way they do to your posts .

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It is a forum for all to express their thoughts on all things F1. Opinions will differ and sometime would not align. But it can be done without resorting to offensive references or passive aggression. You, for instance, are over-critical and lack any proper objective view on the matter. You are very quick to take sides and do nothing but aggravated a situation that could be resolved easily. I think you have said enough on the matter, l certainly have. So let's park shall we?