https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=808eIa84ROs
"EKS JC in cooperation with Rally Technic presents the new Audi A1 quattro rally car for the Rally2 class."
Emil Bergkvist is designated development driver.
Printable View
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=808eIa84ROs
"EKS JC in cooperation with Rally Technic presents the new Audi A1 quattro rally car for the Rally2 class."
Emil Bergkvist is designated development driver.
Just a Rally2Kit car...
Stop sharing wrong info. It is one R4 car, like the spanish one.
It is using a kit presumed to be supplied by Oreca, the re-named version of its FIA R4 kit concept.
Is it called "Rally2" now?
More details about it:
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/e...2-car/5579113/
Yes.
Rally2 former R5
Rally2-Kit former R4
Btw, allready two Audi Rally2-Kit by ASM Motorsport (2 and 4 doors)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Evpj-0IX...pg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Evpj-0AX...jpg&name=large
Care to elaborate which info is wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
These are the kind of cars rally needs. Not the overexpensive crap Toyota and FIA try to shove down everyone throats.
The car is not one Rally2 car as Ford, VW, Skoda, Citroën or Hyundai.Quote:
Originally Posted by BleAivano
Car is one R4 with Kit by Oreca. Less performance than the others mentionated. Can participate in WRC2 and WRC3 in 2022 (2021 not) but will not be top class car.
To homologate one Rally2 would need Audi homologation too (like Ford do with M-Sport).
That car is a KIT of Oreca.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Tell that to Mattias and JC Raceteknik.I'm sure that they know what kind of car they are developing.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvpqNqdX...jpg&name=large
If you read they said 263bhp.
Rally2 (R5) have 290
It's not your fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by BleAivano
From the WRC official article, they only just about mention it, in a quote...
"Rally Technic director Chris Coertsee spoke about his enthusiasm for the project. “The Rally2 kit provides a unique price-performance balance for competitors, but in this case, it is also combined with a legendary brand and a glorious body kit.”"
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc...-wrc-comeback/
And as Andre said, the number don't add up. I only immediately spotted the deception of the WRC article because I'd already just read the slightly less deceptive article on DirtFish.
For the general followers of WRC on Facebook, most having no knowledge of the 'Rally2Kit'/R4 regs, they had virtually no chance at all of spotting this...
I get your point but the team themselves says ((on their own website) that it's a Rally2 car (but says further down Rally2kit):Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
https://www.eksrx.com/news/eks-jc-re...tro-rally-car/Quote:
The newly formed EKS JC team, that consists of two FIA World Rallycross Championship winning squads – EKS and JC, has presented a new project: Audi A1 quattro Rally2 car.
In the end it doesn't matter, it's an Audi Quattro rally car
With PSA 1.6T engine without any Quattro technology.
https://r4rallycars.com/the-r4-concept/
Its a R4/Rally2 Kit Car
https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/rally2kit
Cool anyway. Lets see how quick they can get it!
They cannot participate in WRC this year?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Like I said in the Rally3 thread, the performance should be close to a Group N Mitsu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
I know it is just a money making exercise for the parties involved, but it is obscene that the above class is legislated while other specialist companies are not allowed to prepare Rally2 or Rally1 cars without manufacturer homoiogation.
in WRC yes, WRC2 or 3 no.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Page 20
12.2 REQUIREMENTS FOR CARS TO PARTICIPATE IN THE FIA WRC2
CHAMPIONSHIP AND/OR WRC3 CHAMPIONSHIP
All cars must comply with the 2021 FIA Appendix J regulations
for:
– Group Rally2 cars (complying with Art. 261)
- For drivers entered with a Rally2 car complying with
2021Appendix J, Art. 261, it will be possible to use the
old part after applying a joker (except reliability and
safety jokers).
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi..._published.pdf
It is good to see such a project. I hope it succeeds. This overexpensive situation of "exclusively from factory" R cars must change. At least in two categories (e.g. Rally5 and Rally3 or Rally2) there must be a way to allow private developers to make rally cars, or even just parts for rally cars as in the past, at a lower cost. The costs are ridiculous these days, especially for young drivers.
Malcolm doesnt like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by scn
Uh oh. I'm in a Finnish facebook rally group, where someone (who has been close to the Toyota team) posted this news with the comment "Audi is coming this spring with an R5 car". It has now 112 likes in two hours. People just eat this story without reading further. And of course the comments are filled with "this proves that R5 needs to be the main class" or "I wonder if the technology is shared from Fabia/Polo"
Meanwhile on twitter and facebook people are asking "will it be a 5 cylinder engine / why is it a 4 cylinder engine".
This has been a bad day of rally publishing.
I've been saying this for years - this sport has become too complicated, if even the fans can't understand it anymore.
I know that we'd probably get some variety out of it, but do you really think private developed cars could be a match for the factory developed cars? In WTCR even with BoP the Meganes are the slowest cars on the grid and the Ford, Subaru and Kia's have all disappeared with time. Same for GT3. Manufactures will always develop a better product as they have money to spend in R&D.Quote:
Originally Posted by scn
Too true. Pretty incredible to see it spread from within minutes of WRC Promoter posting it. Wonder if we'll see many posts in a couple of years asking, 'weren't Audi coming back with an R5, what happened...?'.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Amongst other things, it's a damning indictment of the new clearer class structure...
I also don't think WRC Promoter have done the WRC any favours, beyond boosting their social media stats, with all the comments slagging off the main class and putting over 'R5' as the future because 'Audi chose it'! I'm almost surprised Audi haven't come out to distance themselves from this project, given what it'll look like when it's off the pace of the Rally2s and they've actually got nothing to do with it.
A. I said that at least two categories must remain open to private developers. The other two and Rally1, of course, can remain only for the factories, if they survive the financial competition with the categories free to private developers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlyingTuga
B. Don't underestimate private developers. Especially in rallying, a private developer can do miracles. Have you seen a Saxo Kit Car 1,6 lt engine giving 261 bhp?
What happens now is a slow death of the sport. Witness how many old cars we still have in French, Italian, German, Spanish and British rallying. Actually, these old cars keep the sport alive. Without them, rallies would not have enough participants to be financially viable. But, for how long? And for how long can the sport afford to have only rich young drivers in it?
These cars have to be made using an expensive and "exclusively from Oreca" engine, transmission and suspension kit. That kit then has to be built, by a developer, into the bodyshell of the car you want. They are no cheaper to buy than a year or two old R5 (Rally2) car and just as far out of the reach of young drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by scn
I understand your point, especially regarding point B. But, basically, M-Sport or Prodrive is a private outlet. What would be the impediment to having them built cars for that category? And regarding the kit-car and S1600 regs I know that some private turners had done wonders with those motors... but, were they legal?Quote:
Originally Posted by scn
And, for all the matters, I do believe that you have two R categories that could be developed by private tuners. The Rally5 class and the R-GT and yet, the only cars that seem to be appearing are manufacturer made (except for the Porsche and the AM).
On top of that, you still have the point of Steve Boid. A totally built and ready to race Rally2-kit cost around 180k... and on tarmac is fighting with the Rally4 for a place in the leaderboard.
But I do understand what you mean about the slow death of rallying. It is uninspiring how this sport as spectacular as it is failed to attract new brands over the last 20 years or so. I not old by any means, but I still remember the times that everyone had a Kit-Car or an S1600 (with better or worse results). Now, all the categories seem to be dominated by the same 4/5 brands that have a tradition in rallying. But that could also be the fault of the big brands swallowing the smaller ones to create a big group. What is the point of having Seat and Skoda, or Peugeot and Citroen fighting for the same championship if they are basically the same?
Cheers
TBH, I'd like to see EKS installing S1 RX running gears into that body..
Sent from my Redmi 6 using Tapatalk
So here we go again. We just had rally classes redone. Rally 1, rally 2, rally 3 etc and now we have again Rally 2 Kit Car.... Oh man oh man FIA keeps making the same mistake over and over and over again.
Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
This class was already introduced a few years ago. Originally it was called R4 Kit. It's just been very unpopular so most of us have never seen these cars in action.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
This class is problematic because currently it's in the same RC2 category with Rally2 cars, but the performance is closer to Rally3 cars. However, like it's been explained elsewhere, the main reason for this kit are regional rally championships outside Europe, where it's very expensive to import a complete Rally2 car from Europe, compared to building one of these to a car bought from your native country.
Yes I know and that's what I'm talking about. For a average Joe this is sooo confusing.... againQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
But just clarifying it's not like they did it now. This class became before the new Rally1,2,3 classes and it almost seems they forgot the existence of it when drawing the new rally pyramid.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
Yes I'm aware of that and so are most of our forumers but for a average Joe now you have Rally 2, Rally 2 Kit Car which is slower than Rally 3 car :DQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Already we have confusion between WRC2 and WRC3 classes now we have Kit Car as well which can compete in WRC2, but can't participate in WRC3 and is slower than Rally3.
Thanks FIA!
EDIT: maybe soon we have Rally 2+, Rally 2 Kit Car +, Rally 2 EVO just to have more confusion
Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
Me too frustrated over this confusion, managed by FIA, already had discussion with my son over classes. And with you to AnttiL on Twitter. (Also mixing it up with competition classes, you know RC1-RC4...)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Looks like there´s hardly as many versions as people discussing...
Well, well, Audi might like to be a part of the rallying family again, starting easy. Who knows what´s going on at manufacturers managing directors...
Let´s hope for Audi in RC1... ;) ;) (Note. class not, car)
Well, we don't know the pace of Rally3 car yet, but hopefully we'll get some idea tomorrow :)Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
A bit better than Rally4 car. 4WD added to the three cyl engine isn´t a rocket...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Quick recap of R4 history.
Every time you do an organizational development, you will always have challenges with the heiritage.
In this case you have a cartype that was intended for a certain role, and failed - and as so often before - due to cost!
The R4 class was supposed to take over from GrN. FIA gave the task of developing a kit that can be bolted on to a chassis.
They went on a tender, and Oreca won. A company that is part of the FIA "Court Suppliers", but mainly in racing.
They took a PSA engine and a simple 4wd system and safety cage - called it the R4 kit.
http://www.akis.is/wp-content/upload...ette_R4_EN.pdf
It was overpriced even after Oreca cut 20 000 Euro on the kit, compared to R5.
But the R4 was supposed to be 40-50% cheaper to run, compared to an R5.
Here are all R4 cars build; https://www.ewrc-results.com/cars/r4/
The good thing is that you do not have to go through a Homologation process, since the kit was already homologated.
Then the remake in the naming convention came with Rally1, Rally2 and so on.
For some reason FIA then called the old R4 for Rally2 Kit (??) But since the tech spec was made to be one layer under R5/Rally2, this did the same to R4 as they had done to S2000 a few years earlier - it put the cartype on the backburner, for a slow death.
Then the Rally3 plan came up to fill the hole, and make qa cheaper 4wd. Take a Rally4 (R2) car, and put on a 4wd system.
Max price 100 000 euro.
The circumstances changed a bit on the engine size, since not all manus had an engine to use, so new max volume 1620, but smaller restrictor.
Debut this weekend.
I think Rally3 have better odds than R4 had, and hope it finds it place.
ERC have made a class for rally3 this year, and it looks like WRC will have a series for it in 2022. That is a good start for success!
But I belive in EKS and JC, maybe they and with Bergkvist as pilot can show the true potential of the Rally2 Kit car, and find a niche for it.
The most important difference is that one which people often don't like to admit. The Rally3 cars are manufacturer-built cars. They have manufacturer support and someone to push for them in relation to the championships regulations etc. That's what the privately built kit cars can never enjoy whatever their class is.
Rally2-Kit
And people start writing Rally2 Kit Car... oh god
I have just read that there is another Audi A1 rally car. Enrico Windisch is going to drive it in Blaufränkischland Rallye (Austria) tomorrow. It looks a little different than Ekstrom's car and it is called Audi A1 R4, but I think it is also Rally2 Kit. Look at no. 20 on the entry list:
http://www.blaufraenkischlandrallye....nennliste.html
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/...-hubert-au.jpg