Obviously it's been banned, so doing it now is wrong as its illegal, but do you think Labour were right to ban it? Or should it still be allowed?
Discuss :D
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Obviously it's been banned, so doing it now is wrong as its illegal, but do you think Labour were right to ban it? Or should it still be allowed?
Discuss :D
They were right to ban it :up:
Anything in particular reason why you feel that way? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by pino
I love animals too much that's why ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by raphael123
Pino, if you give me your e-mail address, I'll send you a pic of my latest addition to my home: Benny, a chihuahua. He is the cutest!! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by pino
There were reasonable arguments both for and against the ban, but I'm pleased they went ahead with it. As an animal-lover I found the sport barbaric.
So... bullfighting is next?
I used to be dead against fox hunting, but have mellowed somewhat over time. I hate the pursuit, but can understand why some people think that banning it was wrong. Still, it was worth it just to see those hunting types getting into fights with the police during the pro-hunting demonstrations near Parliament, and being outraged by their treatment. Most amusing.
Wrong. We aren't any better than foxes, so we don't have the right to kill them just for fun or because they compete for resources with us. Here, fishermen want to kill seals because they reduce their profits. I say tough, the fish belong to the seals as well as to the humans, maybe even more, since it's their only source of food.
I do hope so ! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
We are at some things. For instance, we are generally better drivers and with the exception of KFC customers, eat chicken in a much more civilised fashion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
OK, but that's a matter of opinion and preferences.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans
:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans
We might eat chicken in a more civilised fashion, but we don't kill them half as humanely as foxes do.
Hunting's ban hasn't worked at all. If anyone's daft enough to think it's stopped they've another think coming. In fact it's actually more popular now, more people Hunt each week and far more 'injured' foxes are killed 'while exercising' Hounds. Foxes are known as 'long tailed rabbits' these days to avoid breaking the law when they're caught. How that works I don't know as I stopped Hunting some years ago and don't even follow in my vehicle now.
What's the point of hunting anyway? And isn't it a little bit unfair? A human with a gun vs a fox with no guns at all. Go and kill a fox with your bare hands, then I'll shake your hand. Just wash it beforehand. :)
It's using Hounds, Erki, not guns. Shooting foxes is done at night and called either lamping (which includes using Lurchers or other dogs sometimes) or just plain shooting.
Hunting as we think of it was a damned good day out, a chance to ride a horse very fast over dangerous land that's private and unavailable at any other time. Foxes were rarely caught if the truth be known. It was more about enjoying a race among sixty or so other horses and then getting plastered on somebody else's expensive gin before lunch :p :
It shouldn't have been banned. I have no feelings for foxes. As for not wanting to hunt foxes because you are a animal lover? What do people think foxes do in their spare time? :confused: Make daisy-chains and sunbathe? No, they kill animals for fun, whether it be farm animals or wild. Farmers have told stories of all their chickens being killed in one night. Foxes are one of the few animals that hunt when they are not hungry.
However, saying this, my mum would never let fox hunting on to her land. Simply because of the damage they do to fences and walls, and sometimes not getting permission. ( I could go on to talk about my feelings on the 'right to roam' but I'll save that for another day)
They kill animals for food. Even if they don't eat it right away, they kill it for future need. Just like squirrels hide peanuts they don't eat right away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
[
Hunting as we think of it was a damned good day out, a chance to ride a horse very fast over dangerous land that's private and unavailable at any other time. Foxes were rarely caught if the truth be known. It was more about enjoying a race among sixty or so other horses and then getting plastered on somebody else's expensive gin before lunch :p :[/QUOTE]
Thats why I would never strongly object to fox hunting although I hate cruelty to animals. The actual fox hunting seems incidental to all the ritual and the risk attached to chasing Renard over the fields on a galloping horse, and people who throw up their hands in horror could do alot more for the cause of animal suffering than bash the toffs.
So if it's all just about a good day out, why involve the fox???????????
Why not just have a drag hunt, or even just a point to point?
:dozey:
so if they bahave in cruel non-logical ways, should we answer in the same way? aren't we supposed to be inteligent creatures?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
Foxes are regarded as pests by the farming community because they attack chickens etc. Foxhunting has been banned, but the killing of foxes will continue through other means as long as they present a threat to farming.
So the choice is really between the different methods of killing.
Do you believe its more humane for a fox to be hunted down and killed by dogs, or to be poisoned, trapped or shot, none of which offer the same guarantee of a rapid death as the hunt?
How about the human impact on those who would normally be employed looking after the dogs and horses involved in the hunt?
What about the hunting dogs, now there is no demand for them what will be done about them?
I'm afraid in my opinion this is about the Islington lot and townies in general (and I am one myself) ramming their beliefs and values down the throats of the rural population who are actually involved and affected by foxes without careful consideration.
The farmers should find better ways to protect their farm animals than killing. If they can't, they should seek other employment. It's like keeping your garbage can wide open and complaining about rats. We have foxes and we have chickens, however I have never heard a fox kill a chicken here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
Life is more important than employment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
The hunting dogs have a maximum career of 10 years. The hunting dog breeders should have been given a notice 10 years before actually banning the hunt. Those who don't want to keep their dogs as pets should have stopped breeding them during that transit period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
OK I will PM you :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
This got rather heated the last time it was discussed.
We should be above hunting and killing animals for fun by now.
What the hell are you talking about :confused: Farmers should seek other employment because Foxes kill their animals? :erm: I'd like you to suggest a way that a Farmer could protect all of their animals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Also Eki- Foxes can't kill all the animals they kill. You compare them to squirrels saving nuts? Meat goes rotten in a week :dozey:
Simple, you put walls, a roof and a floor that a fox can't penetrate around them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
Foxes don't know that (and they may also eat rotten meat). Seeing a lot of chickens together is an unnatural sight for a fox. It doesn't realize that they will still be there tomorrow, so it tries to kill as many as it can while they still are there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
How can a farmer keep over 500 sheep in one building?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Do foxes kill sheep?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
Building is not necessary. High enough electrified fence that also goes deep enough so that a fox can't dig its way through is enough.
By your immature response, I see that you concede the argument? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
:rolleyes:
Mmm...'kayQuote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
How much would 6 foot high electric fences cost to install and run?
How would the farmer get into different fields?
How would people react if our dry stone walls were replaced by horrific fences?
Do you put animal rights ahead of human rights?
Eki- please think before you post.
They could cover the costs by charging more for their products. People will pay if they want to eat, and I believe they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
Through gates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
I think we both have rights and should learn to live together,Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
The market dictates the price for meat. Farming is market led not asset led. Farmers only get what the supermarkets are prepared to pay. If farmers in this country asked for more, shops would just get their meat from abroad where it's cheaper. Supermarkets have the power, not farmers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Well then there is gap in your electric fencing, foxes can get through. A fox can get through a closed gate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Exactly, we can live together, but the only sustainable way by controlling fox numbers. Why can't this be through hunting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
That's where the European Union can help. They can make the same rules apply in every member nation and put taxes on products that come outside the EU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
Gates can be closed and they can be electrified as well. Even foxes can't walk through closed gates or walls, they don't have any superpowers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
Australians have tried to control their fox population by feeding them birth control medication instead of poison. I think that's a nicer method.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
Eki- I don't know if you have ever been on a farm, but let me let you from someone that knows. It is impossible to keep foxes off farmland!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
I say they haven't tried hard enough. Like I said, we have foxes here in Finland, but they aren't harmful for farming. Probably because we have to shelter the animals from cold air, and cold air can get through easier than foxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
You can't protect farm animals that live on open fell land.
i think fox hunting should be banned as it is really horrible as i love foxes
The point almost has nothing to do with foxes, lets face it cars kill a lot more foxes than hunts, it could never seriously be considered a form of pest control, anyone saying that is just looking for excuses to justify hunting.
It comes down to killing animals for fun is wrong! We should have been around long enough to grow out of it.