Rosbergs replacement

Just seen a short clip of Toto been interviewed by Sky Sports saying that they have to consider Alonso for 2017.

I reckon Fernándo's management are currently negotiating with Mercedes/McLaren for him to jump ship and pair up with Lewis for 2017, and that would be a mighty team with I am sure plenty of controversy.

Will Jenson consider staying as the number 1, or will we get musical chairs f1 style.

I think the Mercs are keen on making a decision ASAP so we will soon see.

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I just can't see it being Alonso. I don't think a throwaway comment when prodded by a journalist means they're seriously considering him. Surely Mercedes will look to the future with a younger driver.

Still, if it does happen, and Button does come back to fill his seat at McLaren, that would be, what, Jenson's 3rd retirement that didn't take? Or 4th?

I think it's very unlikely that Mercedes will be bringing Alonso in. Rather than the fireworks arising from a Hamilton-Alonso fight, I'm expecting McLaren to have tied him down. I would be very surprised if Macca had allowed Alonso to treat them just a stopgap solution and given him an exit clause. Top teams don't usually do that kind of stuff.

As I already mentioned in a different thread, Joe Saward believes that the most suitable options for Merc right now are Romain Grosjean and Valtteri Bottas, with Carlos Sainz a distant third, as it's unlikely that RBR will be letting go of their investment.

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Originally Posted by Klinsman

Just seen a short clip of Toto been interviewed by Sky Sports saying that they have to consider Alonso for 2017.

I reckon Fernándo's management are currently negotiating with Mercedes/McLaren for him to jump ship and pair up with Lewis for 2017, and that would be a mighty team with I am sure plenty of controversy.

Will Jenson consider staying as the number 1, or will we get musical chairs f1 style.

I think the Mercs are keen on making a decision ASAP so we will soon see.

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For a start Alonso is not cheap. Also Mclaren would ask for a huge amount to let Alonso go. I can't see it happening but weirder things has happened in this sport.

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Originally Posted by N4D13

I think it's very unlikely that Mercedes will be bringing Alonso in. Rather than the fireworks arising from a Hamilton-Alonso fight, I'm expecting McLaren to have tied him down. I would be very surprised if Macca had allowed Alonso to treat them just a stopgap solution and given him an exit clause. Top teams don't usually do that kind of stuff.

As I already mentioned in a different thread, Joe Saward believes that the most suitable options for Merc right now are Romain Grosjean and Valtteri Bottas, with Carlos Sainz a distant third, as it's unlikely that RBR will be letting go of their investment.

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I don't really rate Grosjean, and found it bizarre when he was initially linked to Ferrari before Kimi extended his contract.

Bottas I would say would be a good team mate for Lewis, I think he would certainly give him a run for his money.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

For a start Alonso is not cheap. Also Mclaren would ask for a huge amount to let Alonso go. I can't see it happening but weirder things has happened in this sport.

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Yeah you never know Mercedes have deep pockets remember.

Also as far as sponsorship and publicity is concerned they will command the full attention of motor sport in general.

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Originally Posted by Klinsman

I don't really rate Grosjean, and found it bizarre when he was initially linked to Ferrari before Kimi extended his contract.

Bottas I would say would be a good team mate for Lewis, I think he would certainly give him a run for his money.

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Obviously those inside the sport rank him higher than those outside, not sure why.

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Originally Posted by Klinsman

Yeah you never know Mercedes have deep pockets remember.

Also as far as sponsorship and publicity is concerned they will command the full attention of motor sport in general.

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It would be the strongest driver lineup on the grid in 2017 certainly. It would definitely provide some entertaining action from start to finish of the 2017 season. The promoters would love it and it would be a great christmas present to the press. But you have to spare a thought for Mclaren if they lose their star driver, their prospect in 2017 would be somewhat dampened.

Finlands Valtieri Bottas
I am informed by Finns that are in the know .
And Willams will get a sweetener as regards Mercedes engines
And Bottas,s manager is Mr Woolf

I guess a question is has Toto been secretly enjoying all the attention the team gets as a result of the conflicts between Hamilton or Rosberg. If yes, then Alonso. If no, then Bottas.

I would be happy with any of the suggested names as I like all of them.

Bottas would be great as I'd like to see what he can do in a top team - likewise with Grosjean. Alonso would be great for obvious reasons, and Sainz in a top team would be highly motivated to demonstrate that he's just as good as Verstappen.

I think Wehrlein would be up to the job. I think he is as good as Verstapenn and Sainz. He just could not show his true talent in the Manor. But he did give us a glimpse of what he might be capable of. He and Ocon are the future of Mercedes, l see no reason why they would not bring him into the main team and start to nurture him properly. I cannot see a better opportunity to make him a championship winner material than partnering him with a three time world champion like Hamilton.

While l like the Alonso idea, it seems too shortsighted to me. He his closer to the end of his career than Rosberg was. Bottas on the other hand would give Mercedes a longer service, but that may have the effect of keeping Wehrlein and Ocon from a silver arrow seat until Hamilton retires. Depending on how well Bottas performs of course.

The long game would be to promote Wehrlein into the spare seat. He would reward Mercedes with a number of world championships in a few years, l am sure.

I think Wehrlein will get the job.

http://www.espn.com.au/f1/story/_/id...mercedes-drive
Kamui Kobayashi has thrown his hat into the ring for a Mercedes drive after the world champions posted a job advert for Nico Rosberg's vacant seat.
- ESPN, 9th Dec 2016.

With the exception of convincing Nico to come back, this is the path of least resistance to get the best driver. He should have won Le Mans this year if it wasn't for the fact that the Toyota shat itself with less than 5 minutes to go.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

For a start Alonso is not cheap. Also Mclaren would ask for a huge amount to let Alonso go. I can't see it happening but weirder things has happened in this sport.

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I don't know why McLaren wouldn't want to release Alonso from contract, besides the fact that Alonso's (and Button's) driving was the only thing that saved McLaren from a complete and total humiliation. In the end, they're paying a ridiculous amount of money for driving a car that regularly fights with Toro Rossos on the field. I think it would have been wiser for McLaren to save some money while at the same time developing young talent.

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Originally Posted by zako85

I don't know why McLaren wouldn't want to release Alonso from contract, besides the fact that Alonso's (and Button's) driving was the only thing that saved McLaren from a complete and total humiliation. In the end, they're paying a ridiculous amount of money for driving a car that regularly fights with Toro Rossos on the field. I think it would have been wiser for McLaren to save some money while at the same time developing young talent.

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I suppose they think Alonso is their best shot at mounting a serious challenge for the constructors and driver titles if they somehow get it right next year and find themselves in the sharp end of the grid. It is a mutual gamble, if Mclaren falls short next year, l would bet my last dollar that Alonso would walk away from Mclaren.

Probably, Alonso's best chance of winning another world championship is in the next three years, after which, he would unlikely be an attractive proposition for top teams. I would wager that Alonso in the Mercedes in 2017 may win the title by 2018 at the latest.

As far as it goes with Mercedes, they have been caught out by the shock withdrawal of Rosberg. But they just have to bide their time for one year and pick their preferred choice in 2018. Most of the best drivers on the grid have their contracts ending in 2018. Vettel, Ricciado and Alonso would be available at that point, so why fret now. Personally, l think they should experiment with Wehrlein in 2017 and see how he copes with a season alongside one of the very best in the game. It is risky for Wehrlein, but it would be a great experience for him and he would learn so much from seeing a three times world champion put together a campaign for the 2017 driver's title from inside Mercedes.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Personally, l think they should experiment with Wehrlein in 2017 and see how he copes with a season alongside one of the very best in the game. It is risky for Wehrlein, but it would be a great experience for him and he would learn so much from seeing a three times world champion put together a campaign for the 2017 driver's title from inside Mercedes.

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How well do you think he has done against Ocon? Qualifying was much better, race pace, not so much.


There's always Perez, everyone seems to have ignored him, but I'm sure FI will agree to discounted engines...

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Originally Posted by Koz

How well do you think he has done against Ocon? Qualifying was much better, race pace, not so much.


There's always Perez, everyone seems to have ignored him, but I'm sure FI will agree to discounted engines...

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Brazil was not a good race for Wehrlein. He did not maintain the heat in his tyres as well as Ocon did and he suffered for it. Much like Rosberg in the wet at Monaco this year. Apart from that he has always finished most races ahead of Ocon this year. Even when he had a bad qualifying. This is not to suggest that Ocon is not a good driver. What l am getting at is that Wehrlein has always been able to show that he had more experience than Ocon. That said, Ocon has also showed that with a little more time, he would match or even beat Wehrlein. From what l have seen, they are very closely matched with Wehrlein having a slender edge.

I think these two in a Silver Arrow would offer the same level of exciting entertainment as the Hamilton vs Rosberg rivary. And l look forward to it.

Wehrlein in the Mercedes would win races next season. If Verstapenn can do it, l bet Wehrlein can do it too.

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Originally Posted by Koz

There's always Perez, everyone seems to have ignored him, but I'm sure FI will agree to discounted engines...

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There is too much hassle surrounding Perez. As a money bag driver with immense talent, the impact of pricing him away from the clutches of Force India who relies on both his talent and money bag would be troublesome to the Mercedes - Force India relationship. If he was out of contract, Perez would be one of the names highly talked about for this seat. I rate him highly actually. I think in a great car, he would win a drivers world title.

In races where they both finished, Ocon and Wehrlein were exactly even, 3 each. Including retirements (at least one of which was of Wehrlein's own doing) it was 6-3 in Ocon's favour. Given their relative levels of experience, I think that reflects either well on Ocon or poorly on Wehrlein.

According to PlanetF1, Massa says he would come out of retirement for a Mercedes seat. Firstly, this says Massa stopped because Williams wasn't going anywhere for his liking and there wasn't any interesting option for him. Secondly, Massa and Hamilton kinda hate each other. Massa felt the 2008 title was stolen from him and would like to return the favour. A Hamilton- Massa partnership would be just as entertaining as a Hamilton - Alonso partnership for the obvious reasons.

But has Massa still got what it takes. Can he match Hamilton on pace? Can he function without Smedley?

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

According to PlanetF1, Massa says he would come out of retirement for a Mercedes seat. Firstly, this says Massa stopped because Williams wasn't going anywhere for his liking and there wasn't any interesting option for him. Secondly, Massa and Hamilton kinda hate each other. Massa felt the 2008 title was stolen from him and would like to return the favour. A Hamilton- Massa partnership would be just as entertaining as a Hamilton - Alonso partnership for the obvious reasons.

But has Massa still got what it takes. Can he match Hamilton on pace? Can he function without Smedley?

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I think you're missing a really important question. Is Merc interested in getting Massa? I feel the answer is rather obvious.

Besides, I think PlanetF1 should be renamed PlanetBS. :p

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Originally Posted by AndyL

In races where they both finished, Ocon and Wehrlein were exactly even, 3 each. Including retirements (at least one of which was of Wehrlein's own doing) it was 6-3 in Ocon's favour. Given their relative levels of experience, I think that reflects either well on Ocon or poorly on Wehrlein.

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Actually, Wehrlein had five DNFs. How l compared Wehrlein to Ocon was to overlap both of their first F1 race results. Hence, if you take Ocon's 9 races and compare it to Wehrlein's first 9 races of the season. And look at the relative highest positions that they finished a race, then you would see that Wehrlein has the edge over Ocon. Unfortunately, he clearly makes a lot of mistakes which l think is putting teams off him. But look back to early Grosjean and Vettel, they crashed a lot when they first started, look at them now. one is a four times world champion.

In their first nine races each, The highest Ocon was able to manage was 12th place but with no DNFs. Wehrlein on the other hand was able to finish tenth and scored one championship point but had one retirement in that period. Another way to look at it was Ocon managed two top fifteen places while Wehrlein managed three top fifteen place in his first nine races.

The only reason Wehrlein might not get the Silver Arrow seat would be his high DNF record.

But that said, this places abit of complication to the Bottas negotiation as well. Mercedes would probably want to offer a cheaper engine deals and Wehrlein in return for Bottas. Williams may like the idea of cheaper engine but the prospect of having two rookies in the team may not be so attractive. Williams need at least one mature and experienced driver alongside Lance Stroll. Of course there is the option of Di Resta filling that requirement, but it leaves the question of what to do with Wehrlein and what Williams would be asking for Bottas excluding Wehrlein.

Bottas is looking very good for the seat at this time but that depends on a number of things.

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Originally Posted by N4D13

I think you're missing a really important question. Is Merc interested in getting Massa? I feel the answer is rather obvious.

Besides, I think PlanetF1 should be renamed PlanetBS. :p

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Quite true, he did not account for himself well in the last two seasons.

Mind you there are other options outside the current grid that would just be as interesting. Verne, Buemi and come to think of it, Kyvat would also be interesting options for the spare seat. Both are very quick. Kyvat need to have his head in the right place tho. They would be a less risky options compared to the Mercedes rookies. And they would win races when Hamilton is having bad days.

Verne is currently a reserve driver at Ferrari, l think. Hence he would not be difficult to obtain. Kyvat just signed for Torro Rosso, but he would not be too difficult to pull away from Torro Rosso judging by how this season has turned out for Kyvat. From Redbull's perspective, it would allow them to get Gastly into F1 as planned.

Are they going to push Hamilton? I think, after they bed into the team, they should be there or there about. But l don't expect they would beat Hamilton over a reliability free season.

I think I'd have to put my money on Bottas at the moment. With the rules changes for the year, Merc can't be sure they remain dominant, and I think having a driver with more development time would have to be a consideration at this point. Being that Williams has slipped a little I think the buyout/engine deals/whatever to negotiate might be fairly easy for Mercedes.

But I guess it all depends on whether Mercedes is looking at the short game or the long game. As long as they keep Lewis they have a couple years at least to roll the dice on one of the young guns, and it looks like Pascal is likely the candidate.





As for Alonso, Seb, Kimi, JV, Max..... probably just as much chance I get the ride IMO. :laugh:

According to Saward , Bottas cannot be pried from the seat due to sponsor obligations the team has .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

According to Saward , Bottas cannot be pried from the seat due to sponsor obligations the team has .

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I can see how that would complicate things further for the Bottas angle. It kind of leaves the option very narrow for Mercedes doesn't it? This puts Wehrlein back in pole position for this seat. Chances are they would run a good stopgap driver for 2017 and then deal with the situation properly when the 2018 driver market open for business.

In which case, they may experiment with Wehrlein, pull Button out of retirement; if Mclaren would let him of course, give Di Resta a chance or look outside the Mercedes family at the likes of Verne, Nasr, Buemi etc. I think they may pick from within the Mercedes crop of drivers. Hence this may well be a toss up between Wehrlein and Di Resta. It would be great though to see Button alongside Hamilton again.

As I understand it, the state of play is this:

Mercedes
X - ???
44 - Hamilton

Red Bull-TAG
3 - Ricciardo
33 - Verstappen

Ferrari
5 - Vettel
7 - Raikkonen

Force India-Mercedes
11 - Perez
31 - Ocon

Williams-Mercedes
77 - Bottas
18 - Stroll

McLaren-Honda
14 - Alonso
2 - Vandoorne

Toro Rosso-Ferrari
26 - Kyvat
55 - Sainz

Haas-Ferrari
8 - Grosjean
20 - Magnussen

Renault
27 - Hulkenburg
30 - Palmer

Sauber-Ferrari
9 - Ericsson
X - ???

Manor-Mercedes
X - ???
X - ???

There just aren't that many drivers out there who are free. Apart from Kobayashi, Piquet, Buemi and Nakajima, who is left that wouldn't require serious contract negotiation? Formula E is littered with has beens and scraping the barrel of GP2 is a gamble.

Well wiith an eye on marketing, they could raid IndyCar for good young drivers like the already licensed Alexander Rossi or Josef Newgarden or, if they really want to go off the main floor, a hotshot newby in Nascar like Chase Elliott or Kyle Larson.

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Originally Posted by Stan Reid

Well wiith an eye on marketing, they could raid IndyCar for good young drivers like the already licensed Alexander Rossi or Josef Newgarden or, if they really want to go off the main floor, a hotshot newby in Nascar like Chase Elliott or Kyle Larson.

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Of course, Mercedes are going to give the F1 world champion's car to a driver who has little or no single seater experience (Elliott; Larson).
Outside of the Indy Car community (which unfortunately is very small), hardly anyone has ever heard of Newgarden, so I don't see any big marketing potential there.
Rossi of course has already driven in F1, but not really done as well as Wehrlein in comperable machinery, so why go for him and not the one who is already under contract to Mercedes (and has done simulator work for them)?
Besides, considering how "well" drivers coming from Indy/Champ Car have done in the past (Michael Andretti, Zanardi, Da Matta; Montoya doesn't really count because he was only parked in CART for two seasons before a Williams drive became available), I highly doubt Mercedes are going to waste many a thought on that possibility.

Williams reject initial offer for Botas which includes Wehrlein and engine cost reduction... Paddy Lowe to Williams.... and James Allison to Mercedes?


Wow!

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38282791

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Originally Posted by Zico

Williams reject initial offer for Botas which includes Wehrlein and engine cost reduction... Paddy Lowe to Williams.... and James Allison to Mercedes?


Wow!

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38282791

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I am not surprised about Lowe leaving Mercedes. There has been plenty signs that he and Toto are not quite aligned on a number of things. You could also attribute most of Mercedes' poor reliability in 2016 and possibly the last three years to Lowe; as Director of the technical side of the Mercedes team this was his responsibilities. Hamilton's technical issues which included two engine failures, happened on his watch. Looking inwards from the outside, one would guess that he has underperformed really. Hence, l am not surprised that Mercedes are talking to Alison as a replacement for him. It is also interesting that Mclaren were quick to state that they were not interested in Lowe. That said, Lowe would be great for Williams as he brings tons of experience from working with Mercedes with him.

I would be surprised that Williams would risk their 2017 campaign by releasing Bottas. It is interesting that Di Resta is not getting any mention at all in all this. Mercedes may have to go with their rookie Wehrlein and hope for the best. I am not sure why Mercedes lack confidence in Wehrlein, especially seeing how well Verstapenn and Sainz are doing. They probably do not rate their rookie as highly as Verstapenn and Sainz.

Giovanazzi has been pretty impressive in GP2 this year. If Wehrlein is not ready for a top seat, Giovanazzi is surely not either, but I think he is available: earlier in the year his manager was expressing bafflement that no F1 teams had expressed any interest in his driver despite 5 wins in his rookie GP2 year.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

Giovanazzi has been pretty impressive in GP2 this year. If Wehrlein is not ready for a top seat, Giovanazzi is surely not either, but I think he is available: earlier in the year his manager was expressing bafflement that no F1 teams had expressed any interest in his driver despite 5 wins in his rookie GP2 year.

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I doubt Mercedes would give Giovanazzi a look when they have more accomplished rookies in Wehrlein and Ocon to consider. When he wins the GP2 title, then maybe.

I am ready to drive for them , and will work for considerably less than $45 million for the next two years .
PM me Merc .
I manage myself .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I am ready to drive for them , and will work for considerably less than $45 million for the next two years .
PM me Merc .
I manage myself .

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Dear Bagwan,
We accept your kind offer to drive for us. We will provide all of your equipment except attitude - in the past all of our drivers have supplied their own. Please report to our facility to be fitted for a seat the first Monday after hell freezes over.
Signed, Toto


:D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I am ready to drive for them , and will work for considerably less than $45 million for the next two years .
PM me Merc .
I manage myself .

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I am happy to give you an excellent character reference and supply your helmets to your design specifications for the next three years free of charge if you are successful.

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Originally Posted by Starter

Please report to our facility to be fitted for a seat the first Monday after hell freezes over.
Signed, Toto


:D :D :D

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Leicester City has already won the Premier League. The Cronulla Sharks won the Australian Rugby League. The Western Bulldogs won the Australian Rules Football League. The Chicago Cubs won the World Series. Donald Trump won the US Presidency.

Hell has already frozen solid. Satan currently ice skates to work.

Some rumours suggest, that Williams have asked if Massa is willing to drive one more year. If he is, they could sell Bottas to Merc

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Originally Posted by COD

Some rumours suggest, that Williams have asked if Massa is willing to drive one more year. If he is, they could sell Bottas to Merc

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What a terrible, terrible thing.

We need new blood in F1, not hasbeens like Massa and Button (or for that matter Kimi).
Look at what Vestrappen (and Ricciardo in the last few years) have done. Would we be better off if Weber was around? What about Rubens, how many years did he waste?

They are just making up the numbers, brining nothing except maybe consistency, I guess that's what teams need at the end of the day, but it sucks for the sport.

Where's the fire, that pounce, that the new blood brings in?


Ok, I'll take all that back, give me Kobayashi!

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Originally Posted by Koz

What a terrible, terrible thing.

We need new blood in F1, not hasbeens like Massa and Button (or for that matter Kimi).
Look at what Vestrappen (and Ricciardo in the last few years) have done. Would we be better off if Weber was around? What about Rubens, how many years did he waste?

They are just making up the numbers, brining nothing except maybe consistency, I guess that's what teams need at the end of the day, but it sucks for the sport.

Where's the fire, that pounce, that the new blood brings in?


Ok, I'll take all that back, give me Kobayashi!

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Well apparently with Martini as a team backer, they require at least driver over the age of 25 for promotioanl purposes, so if Bottas goes they need an older driver.