Mercedes - The Pitwall Vs Driver debacle

Of late there has been signs that the Mercedes pitwall has overridden driver attempt to take control of the strategy of their race. On one occasion, forcefully so. Since this new swing of control was noticeable, it has also become noticeable that the swing of performance advantage has also swung from Hamilton to Rosberg. I do not suggest that Mercedes has created a situation in favour of Rosberg, but it would appear Rosberg has adapted better to this new status quo. But equally, we could also say that it is noticeable that Hamilton is showing signs of being somewhat constrained by this new regime, and as a consequence his performance may have suffered. This is speculative of course.

When you look at this scenario, the initial observation is that, this regime may be intended to be temporary but necessary for Mercedes to attain 1st and 2nd places in the driver championship. The mark of a truly strong season.

But it also makes you wonder what might happen if this were to carry through to 2016. We should be set for an exciting power tussle in Mercedes 2016 season that may determine who wins the 2016 driver championship and possibly the CWC. Tell you who would be revelling in it; Rosberg. If there is any chance at all for Rosberg to win the 2016 title, it would be in this circumstances of turmoil in the team. Enough of it to destabilize Hamilton as the team struggles to maintain control of the situation. A Rosberg win in these circumstances would definitely cause many to at least think Mercedes orchestrated a DWC title in Rosbergs favor and they may be quite wrong. It would also be the first signs of a crack within the Mercedes operation, in particular in the relationship between Hamilton and the Mercedes team. Mainly because it would be Whitmarsh's Mclaren all over again for Hamilton. Pitwall knows best, driver do what you are told.
But on close examination, you would see those people in that Whitmarsh regime are also present in the Mercedes pitwall. If you were to guess what would most likely be the case in 2016, the current tencendcy is leaning towards pitwall autocracy. Which would be fascinating, the politics on and off track would certainly be very entertaining. Who triumphs between their drivers under this situation would be an exciting spectacle as well.
Who else is likely to benefit from this situation? You guessed it, FERRARI. Like Rosberg, this would be the ideal situation for Ferrari to steal the Constructors or Driver championship from Mercedes as they did to Mclaren in 2007. Remember that one? A certain rookie upsetting a double world champion with championship winning performances and Ferrari's Raikonnen just stealing it by one point. Such a turmoil within Mercedes would be music to Ferrari and Vettel's ears. Hence a fifth title is not outside the posibility for Vettel in 2016.
How are you seeing things based on the new swing of fortune in favor of Rosberg at the moment.

Is this new? Haven't Mercedes always insisted on both drivers sticking to the same strategy, with the guy in front getting first dibs on when to pit?

This status quo has been in place since Mercedes started suffocating the sport last year. Unless one driver is far back on the grid (penalty or Quali-mishap) they start on the same strategy and the one with better track position gets the undercut. That's far from new. In fact, instead of complaining about it, Lewis should remember that he brough this upon himself by his own actions, because this 'same strategy' rule has been reinforced since Hungary '14 when he dispobeyed the team and broke the other rule of not interfering with each other's strategy if they are different.

I remember Lauda saying in German TV (for which he is a pundit) after Hungary, that in the future drivers won't be able to interfere with each others strat, because it will always be the same for both. IIRC, since then there's only been two exceptions - Russia '14 (Rosberg) and Monaco '15 (Hamilton).

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

This status quo has been in place since Mercedes started suffocating the sport last year. Unless one driver is far back on the grid (penalty or Quali-mishap) they start on the same strategy and the one with better track position gets the undercut. That's far from new. In fact, instead of complaining about it, Lewis should remember that he brough this upon himself by his own actions, because this 'same strategy' rule has been reinforced since Hungary '14 when he dispobeyed the team and broke the other rule of not interfering with each other's strategy if they are different.

I remember Lauda saying in German TV (for which he is a pundit) after Hungary, that in the future drivers won't be able to interfere with each others strat, because it will always be the same for both. IIRC, since then there's only been two exceptions - Russia '14 (Rosberg) and Monaco '15 (Hamilton).

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There's been a few more than that. Mercedes pitted Rosberg before Hamilton in Bahrain this year which nearly cost Hamilton the lead with the undercut. There has been one or two more incidents throughout the year as well.

I don't see why people are so hung up on Hungary 14. Hamilton would have left Rosberg by if he could get close enough but you can't expect a driver to leave another by and thus sacrifice his own race. Rosberg was never close enough and that's ultimately what cost him.

Didn't we hear Toto just a little while ago saying that if drivers were responsible for their own strategy , they would lose every time out ?

And , I think Allen came out with analysis that showed that Lewis would have fared far worse , had he changed up .

If one applies Occam's razor...

Mercedes saw a risk that they might get a puncture near the end (like Vettel at Spa). They were well ahead and had plenty of time to pit, so they brought both cars in.

The simplest explanation for the known facts is probably the truth. :)

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Originally Posted by Morte66

If one applies Occam's razor...

Mercedes saw a risk that they might get a puncture near the end (like Vettel at Spa). They were well ahead and had plenty of time to pit, so they brought both cars in.

The simplest explanation for the known facts is probably the truth. :)

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Let's not let the truth get in the way .

There's lots of room for a conspiracy theory here .

I wrote that in jest , but there is a possible grain of truth that could be incubating in the Merc camp .
You have a guy who looks to be following team instructions , and another who is questioning them .

Toto publicly slated the idea that Lewis could pick his own strategy with any success , reminding him and his adoring fans that he is a member of a big organization .

There is no "i" in team , but there is in Hamilton , and they've just had to remind him of it again .
It's gotta be a tedious job , dealing with the press on issues like these .

Nico , albeit a bit late , is just quietly getting on with the job at hand .
That's what he needs to do .



Oh yeah , welcome , by the way .

Must be a slow day in McLaren Country .(sorry , couldn't resist) Hee hee .

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Originally Posted by Morte66

If one applies Occam's razor...

Mercedes saw a risk that they might get a puncture near the end (like Vettel at Spa). They were well ahead and had plenty of time to pit, so they brought both cars in.

The simplest explanation for the known facts is probably the truth. :)

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Occam's Razor is one of my favourite things.:) There is too much guesswork and "getting lost" in complicated theories.

Since Lewis won the WDC the Mercedes team are very warm towards Rosberg, thats obvious!!! Is it something wrong with that?

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Toto publicly slated the idea that Lewis could pick his own strategy with any success , reminding him and his adoring fans that he is a member of a big organization .

There is no "i" in team , but there is in Hamilton , and they've just had to remind him of it again .
It's gotta be a tedious job , dealing with the press on issues like these .

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To be honest, it would be great if Mercedes let these guys genuinely race each other. Particularly since there are no real competition to the Mercedes team at moment. Vettel and Ferrari may pick a few scraps here and there, but they no real threat. Hence, the real duel at the front is between the Mercedes drivers. Stage managing a one two finish sort of takes away from the spectacle, the raw racing element that draws the likes of you and me to watch F1 races.

Hamilton and Rosberg are not racing each other if they cannot change their strategy mid race to try to find an advantage over the other during the race, especially on tracks like Mexico and Brasil where it is difficult to overtake the same car on the track.

I think Rosberg's 2nd place in the championship is secure now even if he has a DNF at Abu Dhabi. The Hamilton and Rosberg should be left to race and the pitwall side for each driver should be able to change strategy to give their man an advantage where one presents itself. Otherwise, , we have to watch a Mercedes procession and they should not complain if they are not getting television time as the only other excitement is in the midfield.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

Is this new? Haven't Mercedes always insisted on both drivers sticking to the same strategy, with the guy in front getting first dibs on when to pit?

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I think the Mercedes way was the driver in front gets priority of when to stop and is entitled to come in first. However, Mercedes has not always stuck to this rule, hence you could say it is not really written in stone as such. The business about the right to change strategy was allowed in the past. But most noticeable is the pitwall dictating to drivers what strategy to follow during the race, particularly when the driver can sense an opportunity and wishes a different approach. Toto's talk that driver would lose track opportunity if left to make strategy calls is bollocks and he knows it. That is why Mercedes employ the pitwall crew to make such changes of strategy work using the vast data available to them. Makes you wonder how did Prost, Mansell, Senna manage to get to the end of their races without pitwall radios telling them how to win their races.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

There's been a few more than that. Mercedes pitted Rosberg before Hamilton in Bahrain this year which nearly cost Hamilton the lead with the undercut. There has been one or two more incidents throughout the year as well.

I don't see why people are so hung up on Hungary 14. Hamilton would have left Rosberg by if he could get close enough but you can't expect a driver to leave another by and thus sacrifice his own race. Rosberg was never close enough and that's ultimately what cost him.

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Isn't the inability to come and stay close to the car in front exactly what Lewis was whining about in Brazil? Back then he used it as an excuse. So what's it gonna be?

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

To be honest, it would be great if Mercedes let these guys genuinely race each other. Particularly since there are no real competition to the Mercedes team at moment. Vettel and Ferrari may pick a few scraps here and there, but they no real threat. Hence, the real duel at the front is between the Mercedes drivers. Stage managing a one two finish sort of takes away from the spectacle, the raw racing element that draws the likes of you and me to watch F1 races.

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Merc are a German operation, even though the factories are in Blighty. Let me tell you something about us Germans. If we could schedule our bowel movements - we would...

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

Isn't the inability to come and stay close to the car in front exactly what Lewis was whining about in Brazil? Back then he used it as an excuse. So what's it gonna be?

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You can't expect a driver to slow down and potentially compromise his own race to leave his teammate past.

OK, let's try a bit of wild imaginary melodrama on for size...

Imagining the Mercedes boss getting on the radio during the race to say...

"Well, Lewis, we have the race in hand except there's an outside chance of a puncture at the end like Vettel got at Spa. So we're changing to make sure. Now it's not fair to just bring one of you in, so we're doing both. And if we were going to box just one driver, to make sure we get a finisher at the cost of slowing them down, it'd be the guy in second. Which is you. Now, you were saying...?"

That'd spice things up. ;->

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Originally Posted by Morte66

OK, let's try a bit of wild imaginary melodrama on for size...

Imagining the Mercedes boss getting on the radio during the race to say...

"Well, Lewis, we have the race in hand except there's an outside chance of a puncture at the end like Vettel got at Spa. So we're changing to make sure. Now it's not fair to just bring one of you in, so we're doing both. And if we were going to box just one driver, to make sure we get a finisher at the cost of slowing them down, it'd be the guy in second. Which is you. Now, you were saying...?"

That'd spice things up. ;->

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You miss my subtle irony ;-)