Is Italy next to go?

Read a piece that stated that Ecclestone in his infinite wisdom has stated that he will not renew Italy's agreement to hos a GP when it expires next year.

Surely even 'the poison dwarf' isn't that stupid (or money driven) that he would sacrifice Monza for a race around a carpark in Azerbaijan?

I have supported F1 since the 70's, and have a great interest in the history of it, but I have to say this WILL end after next season if this horrid, money-grubbing little turd continues to destroy F1 as he currently is.


F1 without Germany and France is bad enough, F1 without Monza (or Imola maybe) is unthinkable, and isn't F1.

The Dwarf has been good for F1 ,but has grown very greedy,and even when he is a Billionaire ,it does not end there .He is ruthless,as well as arrogant ,and will kill the sport he built up

We can't keep losing traditional venues.

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Originally Posted by driveace

The Dwarf has been good for F1 ,but has grown very greedy,and even when he is a Billionaire ,it does not end there .He is ruthless,as well as arrogant ,and will kill the sport he built up

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Granted when he first took over F1 was in a bit of a mire, and his business savvy saved it and moved it forward. But a good business man knows when to move on, unfortunately 'the poison dwarf' can't see the world like that.

My fear is that if he continues to erode F1 just to make money for himself it will vanish. Maybe it is time teams and fans alike voted with their feet. Possibly it is also time for a breakaway series (but only if all of the major players are involved)

I guess he wants leverage for more of teh monies?

He did say Spa would be axed a few years ago, didn't he?

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Originally Posted by anfield5

Granted when he first took over F1 was in a bit of a mire, and his business savvy saved it and moved it forward. But a good business man knows when to move on, unfortunately 'the poison dwarf' can't see the world like that.

My fear is that if he continues to erode F1 just to make money for himself it will vanish. Maybe it is time teams and fans alike voted with their feet. Possibly it is also time for a breakaway series (but only if all of the major players are involved)

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I truly believe F1 in Europe is dying. TV viewing figures are dropping, interest from enthusiasts waning. The sport seems desperately out of step with modern times and those in charge are doing nothing to alleviate the problems — quite the reverse. I hope all of those, generally people with an exaggerated level of respect for big business, who blather on about Ecclestone still 'knowing best' are pleased with themselves. The man's been a dinosaur and a liability to the best interests of the sport for years now.

Is it dying in Europe because the traditional European events are being farmed off to any nation with a dictator and a cheque book? Or are races being moved because interest is dying off?

From this side of the world it looks like the former. Many real fans see the history as being an important part of the sport (and any other sport for that matter). It is kind of like in Football in England when Wimbledon moved to Milton Keynes - loyal Wimbledon supporters simply washed their hands of the club, and most MK locals had no interest in supporting them either. Although Wimbledon as a club had supporters from MK before they moved.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/m...-10134493.html
“If staging grands prix are all about the almighty dollar rather than the fans, then it will go to those countries that put up the cash to support them. We have seen the circuit expand to Russia and Bahrain, while Qatar will probably become involved. These are nations that put cash up front.”
- Patrick Allen, GM of Silverstone, as quoted in the Independent, 25th Mar 2015

Everyone looks at the success of football and the deals that were nutted out at the creation of the Premier League and very quickly forget that before 1989, football was an almost non-existent thing on telly.

Formula One on telly in the early 1990s was mainly on free-to-air across Europe and it was then that pay-TV networks eyed the potential for monetisation; which is where we are now.
The BTCC remains on free-to-air because they'd rather been seen by eyeballs than cashed up subscribers. Formula One though, would rather shake its viewers upside-down until the cash falls out of their pockets.

Prediction:
Italy will go by 2017.
Formula One will die the same death that Indy Car did, in 2020.

Bernie will still be happy though.

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Originally Posted by anfield5

Possibly it is also time for a breakaway series (but only if all of the major players are involved)

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Because that worked so well for Indycars.

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Originally Posted by Doc Austin

Because that worked so well for Indycars.

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It worked tremendously well for the Premier League when all 22 clubs broke away from the football league.

If all of the teams left at once, it would mean that Bernie would be holding nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by Doc Austin

We can't keep losing traditional venues.

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We can't, but Mr Bernard Charles Ecclestone doesn't care.

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Originally Posted by anfield5

Surely even 'the poison dwarf' isn't that stupid (or money driven) that he would sacrifice Monza for a race around a carpark in Azerbaijan?
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If Bernie could sacrifice Germany - the heart of Europe and country with most front-running F1 competitors right now - then Italy is nothing for him.

There was a breakaway ,or competitor to F1 founded by some guy from the middle east, where all the cars were the same,with drivers from different countries.But that folded after about 3 years
As regards Spa,I am told that the Dwarf takes over the circuit for the race and pays a paltry sum for it's use .I was told that by a lady that owns a camp site very close to the site

You can't blame the circuits for seeing sense and deciding not to pay for the 'privilege' of hosting a F1 race. What do they get out of it?? Very little. I don't want to hear Silverstone moaning about no government backing, etc just don't pay. Too many circuits exist almost entirely around their F1 race; and make circuit changes just for F1.
What a strange sport F1 is; many drivers having to pay to drive, circuits having to pay huge fees just to host, etc

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Originally Posted by anfield5

Is it dying in Europe because the traditional European events are being farmed off to any nation with a dictator and a cheque book? Or are races being moved because interest is dying off?

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Both. I think it's in a vicious circle, the diminution of F1's presence on free-to-air television not helping also.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Everyone looks at the success of football and the deals that were nutted out at the creation of the Premier League and very quickly forget that before 1989, football was an almost non-existent thing on telly.

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Yes. Also, they forget that your average Premier League weeknight match between mid-table teams with little to play for gets tiny viewing figures in the UK.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Formula One on telly in the early 1990s was mainly on free-to-air across Europe and it was then that pay-TV networks eyed the potential for monetisation; which is where we are now.
The BTCC remains on free-to-air because they'd rather been seen by eyeballs than cashed up subscribers. Formula One though, would rather shake its viewers upside-down until the cash falls out of their pockets.

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It's odd. Despite the reversed grids, weight penalties, fiddling with boost levels, unnecessary pegging-back of rear-wheel-drive cars and so forth, the BTCC is the only motorsport series in which I remain truly interested. I wonder why that is.

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Originally Posted by jens

If Bernie could sacrifice Germany - the heart of Europe and country with most front-running F1 competitors right now - then Italy is nothing for him.

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Germany I don't think is quite that simple. I know Ecclestone (why do we who don't know him call him by his first name?) makes it all but impossible to run a non-governmentally-bankrolled F1 venue these days, but the Nürburgring, at least, has been appallingly mis-managed. Also, F1 viewing figures in Germany have fallen off and crowds at the circuits likewise. The country's public seems to have fallen out of love with F1 post-Schumacher, despite Vettel.

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

You can't blame the circuits for seeing sense and deciding not to pay for the 'privilege' of hosting a F1 race. What do they get out of it?? Very little. I don't want to hear Silverstone moaning about no government backing, etc just don't pay. Too many circuits exist almost entirely around their F1 race; and make circuit changes just for F1.

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And look at Silverstone — a circuit ruined by the demands of F1. I think it was Nigel Roebuck who wrote recently that the 'improvements' demanded, and apparently accepted, by Ecclestone have made the place look more like an incomplete building-site than ever it did before.

Governments shouldn't have to pay, because there should be enough money in the sport to see it through without state hand-outs, but the sport's current economic model renders this almost impossible.

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

What a strange sport F1 is; many drivers having to pay to drive, circuits having to pay huge fees just to host, etc

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I fear the whole house of cards is closer to collapse than many of us fear.

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Originally Posted by Doc Austin

Because that worked so well for Indycars.

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It did work for Indycars in that the breakaway series (IRL) became the leading series very quickly. Teams who stay with the original series started to move across, and eventually when the two series recombined it was the IRL that stayed, the old PPG Indy series had to in effect join the new series, rather than the other way around. Sure the IRL made some concessions, but they were only concessions.

If a breakaway F1 series started, with all of the teams, and the support of circuits such as Hockenheim, Silverstone, Monza, Spa etc it would succeed.

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Originally Posted by driveace

There was a breakaway ,or competitor to F1 founded by some guy from the middle east, where all the cars were the same,with drivers from different countries.But that folded after about 3 years
As regards Spa,I am told that the Dwarf takes over the circuit for the race and pays a paltry sum for it's use .I was told that by a lady that owns a camp site very close to the site

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A1GP series folded because all the cars were the same and the quality of the drivers was quite poor. The idea of a nations cup of GP racing was doomed from the start. It was too contrived, plus the circuits it raced on were not good and the racing never caught the attention

I can't imagine Ferrari being pleased about losing the Italian Grand Prix.

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Originally Posted by anfield5

A1GP series folded because all the cars were the same and the quality of the drivers was quite poor. The idea of a nations cup of GP racing was doomed from the start. It was too contrived, plus the circuits it raced on were not good and the racing never caught the attention

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I don't really agree with that. It folded because, above all, the public didn't care. Why? Because they already have F1. Were F1 in its current form to cease to exist, there would be room for something else.

And therein lies the opportunity..
If F1 only races in the far east, middle east, with the odd trips to Europe, North & South America then theres a huge opportunity right now for someone to come up with an European-based GP series.
There are plenty of potential 600hp engines ready for 2017, there are also employees from Caterham, Marussia, Williams, Red Bull et al as teams cut back on employees around in Europe with the expertise & facilities to manufacture CF cars & parts (and companies that do, for Force India, McLaren, Williams etc).

Circuit-wise there's Magny-Cours, Nurburgring, Hockenheim, Donington, Imola, Monza (possibly), Estoril, Algarve, Jerez, Valencia (Ricardo Tormo), Paul Ricard, Brands Hatch, Brno, Zandvoort, Zolder, Sachsenring.
Imagine a European-based championship, single-seaters powered by a variety of Turbo and NA engines, V6, Flat-6, V8, I4, I6, at those tracks..
F2/F3000 only flopped when it all went spec-cars & it got tied into F1's support races.

But after the Dwarfs remarks about Manor,and it's a disgrace they are there.Why would any new entrants think of spending millions to hear degatory remarks from the ringmaster ? Manor came out of administration to be in Australia,and get their car out in Malaysia ,and at least run .Lots of teams not sponsored by a large motor manufacturer ,put in an enormous amount of effort and money in to be in F1 ,but dont need to hear remarks like this from the Dwarf

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Originally Posted by driveace

But after the Dwarfs remarks about Manor,and it's a disgrace they are there.Why would any new entrants think of spending millions to hear degatory remarks from the ringmaster ? Manor came out of administration to be in Australia,and get their car out in Malaysia ,and at least run .Lots of teams not sponsored by a large motor manufacturer ,put in an enormous amount of effort and money in to be in F1 ,but dont need to hear remarks like this from the Dwarf

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I don't see the point of Manor being there, but Ecclestone has no moral authority to make such remarks about anyone any more. Their best reaction would be to say, "If it's a disgrace we are here, it's even more of a disgrace that you aren't currently sitting in a German jail."

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I don't see the point of Manor being there, but Ecclestone has no moral authority to make such remarks about anyone any more. Their best reaction would be to say, "If it's a disgrace we are here, it's even more of a disgrace that you aren't currently sitting in a German jail."

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I could think of some other facilities there that he could be housed at... but then that would be wrong... maybe....

Anyways the subject has cropped-up again just recently, about an idea of altering the Italian GP between Imola & Monza, starting in 2017. Of course Monza would still be obligated to Bernie's fees, or at least I assume so with his quip; "I want Italy to stay on the calandar at all costs."

Any thoughts about the proposed switcher-roo format similar to what Silverstone & Brands Hatch had years ago?

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

I can't imagine Ferrari being pleased about losing the Italian Grand Prix.

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For that reason I hope that the Italian Grand Prix does disappear. It'd be ace to see Ferrari tell Bernie off. Ferrari would drop Bernie faster than a plate of cold sick.

Whatever happens, we'd all win.

monza will never leave the calendar. if it does then Bernie would be digging his own grave.

imola track is a relic imo and i'm not sad it left the calendar.
Monza is one of F1'a temples and removing it is simply not possible

then again they destroyed my all time favorite track the old hockenheim and removed my 2nd favorite suzuka for a few years (until sanity prevailed)
and left out my 3rd favorite Spa for a couple of years and it always seems to be in a precarious situation. And my 4th favorite and best tilke track Turkey, isn't even on the calendar anymore
so who knows

... I really do miss that turkey track, loved it
in fact going to go look at a some old youtube videos now
sigh

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Originally Posted by Rollo

For that reason I hope that the Italian Grand Prix does disappear. It'd be ace to see Ferrari tell Bernie off. Ferrari would drop Bernie faster than a plate of cold sick.

Whatever happens, we'd all win.

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:laugh:

Holy $hit that would be cool! Watching the first pillar of his empire starting to crumble as a result of his strung-out-on-stupid gluttony of failsafe extortions. :D

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Originally Posted by truefan72

... in fact I'm going to go look at a some old youtube videos now
sigh

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I've been doing that more often than sitting thru a whole race these days.