Manufactures driving school

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19th April 2007, 20:38
Roy

Manufactures driving school

We have many discussion about Wilson in WRC. Some say it is better to learn rally is JWRC or FIA Juniors who is called since this year. I have think about it and do some research. I wonder what manufactures do. Do the have 'school plans' like Wilson jr has? I mean that 5 year step-by-step plan.

Watch how manufactures works:
Citroen: Loeb and Sordo comes from S1600. But a clear training path... I didn't see.
Subaru: The second seat: Who has money; The first seat: who is fast? Welcome!

But Ford. That is a different story.
They lead there drivers. Hirvonnen comes in world rally for the first time in a WRC car. He drives for Ford the third car in 2003. He learn and get some opportunities from Ford. Now he is a fast driver, the first driver behind Loeb and Gronholm. (Best of the rest).
Latvala is a good example from 'Fords school plan'. He get some drives in 2003 and 2005 by Ford in a Focus WRC and comes to WRC in 2007 sponsored by Ford also.
The new 'student' is Mikkelsen. He get a car from his dad, prepared by Ramsport. But watch the entrylist of Norway and Portugal. The name of the entrant is Stobart-VK-M Sport-Ford RallyTeam. That means they pay for his entry. M-Sport/Ford want that he is learning the WRC, rally, the skills and pay for him.

Ford has a plan with some drivers. Latvala is the comming man to the Ford 'A' team. Mikkelsen have some years to go and he is a Stobart driver before he is in the manufacturer Ford.
This is very smart of Ford. Offcourse they dont pay everything. Only the entryfee. But little by little, step by step the driver can learn the rallies AND the WRCar. Some other rallies who is not in WRC he can drive in another (cheaper) class. Like Latvala did (PWRC).

I don't see other manufactures had a 'school'. Maybe is Citroen from now focusing of talants in the C2. That will be smart to. They learn the roads and skills, but it take some tome to learn a WRCar.
19th April 2007, 20:50
COD

:laugh: , "they only pay the entry fee" :laugh: I have never heard the entry fee for A WRC event would be around 200 000€/ event.

I think the Citroen way is much cheaper, and has actually provided at least as good, if not even better results than Fords. And those results have become faster than at Ford. So I prefer the Citroen way actually
19th April 2007, 21:21
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by FocusChampion

Ford has a plan with some drivers. Latvala is the comming man to the Ford 'A' team. Mikkelsen have some years to go and he is a Stobart driver before he is in the manufacturer Ford.
This is very smart of Ford. Offcourse they dont pay everything. Only the entryfee. But little by little, step by step the driver can learn the rallies AND the WRCar. Some other rallies who is not in WRC he can drive in another (cheaper) class. Like Latvala did (PWRC).

I don't see other manufactures had a 'school'. Maybe is Citroen from now focusing of talants in the C2. That will be smart to. They learn the roads and skills, but it take some tome to learn a WRCar.

Lol, what Ford plan?? Jouhkis and Latvalas it is, there has been a clear plan with Latvala since he started in Penttis school, the same goes for all drivers Jouhki manages, that he sits now in a Ford is an coincident, he could sit in some other car if that would be clever carreer move, but most likely is that next seat that comes free is Grönholms.
20th April 2007, 10:51
Brother John

To continue your laugh!

Quote:

Originally Posted by COD

:laugh: , "they only pay the entry fee" :laugh: I have never heard the entry fee for A WRC event would be around 200 000€/ event.

I think the Citroen way is much cheaper, and has actually provided at least as good, if not even better results than Fords. And those results have become faster than at Ford. So I prefer the Citroen way actually

And nowe results afther 6 month ore craches means "THERE IS THE DOOR" with the French teams! :rolleyes:
20th April 2007, 11:55
Roy

Quote:

Originally Posted by COD

:laugh: , "they only pay the entry fee" :laugh: I have never heard the entry fee for A WRC event would be around 200 000€/ event.

€200.000 How do you come to this? :confused:
Ford/M-Sport pays only the entry fee of Mikkelsen. Do you know more?
20th April 2007, 12:09
COD

Quote:

Originally Posted by FocusChampion

€200.000 How do you come to this? :confused:
Ford/M-Sport pays only the entry fee of Mikkelsen. Do you know more?

They can afford to pay the entryfee after charging the driver / sponsor 200 000 for running the car in the event
20th April 2007, 12:33
Grany

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother John

And nowe results afther 6 month ore craches means "THERE IS THE DOOR" with the French teams! :rolleyes:

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6241/calimerone2.gif

The FRM is really too unjust.
20th April 2007, 12:47
milly

Ford doesn't pay anything to support the drivers in the Stobart Team.

The team is run by M-Sport as a commercial enterprise - all the drivers pay to drive for the team. The name Stobart-VK-M-Sport is just an official title for the team so it is registered for M2 positions - and was created last year to make it seem more manufacturer entries were there in WRC.
20th April 2007, 15:25
Roy

Quote:

Originally Posted by COD

They can afford to pay the entryfee after charging the driver / sponsor 200 000 for running the car in the event

Mikkelsen and his sponsors pays the cars. Thats is why he has sponsors. Without them he can never drive.
Only the entry is payed by Stobart. It is clear where the money come from.

M-Sport want invest in Latvala, so the support him in Stobart car. He has not a budget for the whole year. He gat more money then a entry, ut a good investment. He is a substitue in the (very) near future for the flying Finns in BP Ford Team.
20th April 2007, 18:27
Brother John

Sport ore business!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FocusChampion

€200.000 How do you come to this? :confused:
Ford/M-Sport pays only the entry fee of Mikkelsen. Do you know more?

On all official WRC rally sites you can find how much the entry fee is. It´s about 30.000 €, for M1 teams,depent on how much cars they will enter!
20th April 2007, 21:16
COD

Quote:

Originally Posted by FocusChampion

M-Sport want invest in Latvala, so the support him in Stobart car. He has not a budget for the whole year. He gat more money then a entry, ut a good investment. He is a substitue in the (very) near future for the flying Finns in BP Ford Team.

Yeah right, Jouhki suddenly ran out of money :laugh:

Clever PR from Jouhki team if they made people believe that Ford or M-Sport is paying something instead of them, BS
21st April 2007, 00:25
Nenukknak

Run a third car, would be good, but it's too expensive for teams. Citroen wanted to run a third car for Sordo but budget wouldn't allow it, so Sordo gets to drive the second car. M2 teams are a good option, but are expensive for young drivers, so not great.

But the situation now is not good IMHO. There have to be better second drivers around than there are currently in WRC. A time not so long ago you had drivers in one team competing for victories, championships even. Now all teams have a clear second driver. Of course youngsters need time to learn. But they should have learned before they are in a factory seat. And I'm not saying you should cut them no slack, but now they get cut too much slack.
There have to be more Loebs and Gronholms out there.
21st April 2007, 19:51
J4MIE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nenukknak

Run a third car, would be good, but it's too expensive for teams. Citroen wanted to run a third car for Sordo but budget wouldn't allow it, so Sordo gets to drive the second car. .

Rubbish! Citroen can afford it, but with no manufacturer points for more than the two nominated drivers, what's the point?
21st April 2007, 20:13
White Sauron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nenukknak

Run a third car, would be good, but it's too expensive for teams.

Is it? Ford is actually running 6-9 cars, and without any probs.
21st April 2007, 20:13
Nenukknak

Guy Frequelin said it himself on TV. Rubbish or not.
21st April 2007, 21:06
J4MIE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nenukknak

Guy Frequelin said it himself on TV. Rubbish or not.

Yes, and Colin McRae often blamed his car for being too slow ;)
22nd April 2007, 16:14
jonas_mcrae

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Sauron

Is it? Ford is actually running 6-9 cars, and without any probs.

Yeah and I think M-Sport is making a good amount of money out of that, (from henning and the munchis guys) not from wilson or latvala...
24th April 2007, 20:23
Roy

Quote:

Originally Posted by COD

Yeah right, Jouhki suddenly ran out of money :laugh:

Clever PR from Jouhki team if they made people believe that Ford or M-Sport is paying something instead of them, BS

I think (i know for sure) we do't understand each other.

Latvala:
- In 2003 his entry fee pays by M-Sport, because they see in him a good driver
- Ford invest this year a (little) money in him. Because they prepaired him for the future.
- Latvala is a Ford driver.

- Manager of Latvala do know where the sponsors are and can pay a car of Latavala in 2003 and 2005.
- Manager and M-sport do a great deal. Latvala an M-sport brings some money in and can drive for Ford. Jouhki and Ford happy.
- Remember: Latvala has not got enough money for this year. Ford will he drive all rallies.

Mikkelsen:
- M-Sport pays entry fee

- Driver and sponsors pay car.
24th April 2007, 20:44
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by FocusChampion

I think (i know for sure)
- Remember: Latvala has not got enough money for this year. Ford will he drive all rallies.

From where do you get this crap?
24th April 2007, 21:06
COD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomi

From where do you get this crap?

That's what I would like to know too
24th April 2007, 21:20
Roy

Quote:

Originally Posted by COD

That's what I would like to know too

And what is the crap...? I do understand of the words of wilson sr. they found money for 16 rounds. There was money for a couple of 12 rounds.
He say something about wrc radio.

You can't denied Latvala is for some comming years the (future)Ford driver and Ford pays the entry of Mikkelsen.
24th April 2007, 22:46
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by FocusChampion

And what is the crap...? I do understand of the words of wilson sr. they found money for 16 rounds. There was money for a couple of 12 rounds.
He say something about wrc radio.

You can't denied Latvala is for some comming years the (future)Ford driver and Ford pays the entry of Mikkelsen.

you dont understand that the people who is backing Latvala are not so very poor, they can buy m-sport if needed with their pocket money.
25th April 2007, 08:32
Roy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomi

you dont understand that the people who is backing Latvala are not so very poor, they can buy m-sport if needed with their pocket money.

Right...
25th April 2007, 09:50
DonJippo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomi

you dont understand that the people who is backing Latvala are not so very poor, they can buy m-sport if needed with their pocket money.

Back pocket or side pocket money ... ;)
25th April 2007, 10:00
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonJippo

Back pocket or side pocket money ... ;)

You know well, the pocket the hand happens to go first in. :)
25th April 2007, 13:02
COD

Quote:

Originally Posted by FocusChampion

And what is the crap...? I do understand of the words of wilson sr. they found money for 16 rounds. There was money for a couple of 12 rounds.
He say something about wrc radio.

You can't denied Latvala is for some comming years the (future)Ford driver and Ford pays the entry of Mikkelsen.

"They found" can and pretty sure does mean the people behind Latvala. To give the impression that Ford put the money in is in their interest. Like Tomi said, they can afford to buy M-Sport if needed.

And Mikkelsen, like I said name of the entrant doesn't mean a thing. It may well be, that their contract with Mikkelsen says that he has to pay XXX.XXX€ / race and that summ includes entryfee. Now who really pays it then???
25th April 2007, 15:57
Roy

Quote:

Originally Posted by COD

"They found" can and pretty sure does mean the people behind Latvala. To give the impression that Ford put the money in is in their interest. Like Tomi said, they can afford to buy M-Sport if needed.

And Mikkelsen, like I said name of the entrant doesn't mean a thing. It may well be, that their contract with Mikkelsen says that he has to pay XXX.XXX€ / race and that summ includes entryfee. Now who really pays it then???

Hmmm, so you think my vision is rubish... that is not nice! :s :D
25th April 2007, 20:17
COD

Quote:

Originally Posted by FocusChampion

Hmmm, so you think my vision is rubish... that is not nice! :s :D

We were just asking for basis of what you were saying. If you have evidence of it, I would reconsider. Nothing against you personally.