My ideal IndyCar schedule. Thoughts?

Well now that the 2014 IndyCar schedule has been announced i just thought i'd throw in my two cents as to what I think would make it better. Looking for feedback.

The 2014 schedule is:

March 30th St.Petersburg*
April 13th Long Beach*
April 26th Barber**
May 10th Indy Grand Prix**
May 25th Indy 500***
May 31st/June 1 Detroit (doubleheader)*
June 7th Texas***
June 28th/29th Houston (doubleheader)*
July 6th Pocono***
July 12th Iowa***
July 19th/July 20th Toronto (doubleheader)*
August 3rd Mid-Ohio**
August 17th Milwaukee***
August 24th Sonoma**
August 30th Fontana***

(* Street Circuit, ** Road Course, *** Oval)

Thats 18 rounds, including three double headers. It breaks down to 8 street circuit races (including all three double headers), 6 ovals and 4 road courses.

Overall I like the schedule. I think 18 is a good number of races, and for the most part I like the venues. One problem I have though is the double headers. IndyCar is (or at least should be) a premier racing series and double headers scream feeder series to me. GP2, Formula Renault and Formula 3 can have double header race weekends, but i don't wanna see that for IndyCar. Some fans might argue that more races are better, but i'd argue that the excitement of one premier race is better than two heat races. Also, historic races like the Detroit Grand Prix (a former F1 race) shouldn't be broken down into too races. By reverting the double headers back to single race weekends we're left with 5 street circuit rounds which i think is a perfect number on an 18 round schedule.

I would add a fifth road course to the schedule. I think there are too many great and/or historic road courses in North America that aren't being used for open wheel racing. My shortlist would be, Watkins Glen, NY (my first choice), Mont-Tremblant, QC, Laguna Seca, CA and Portland International, OR. I think Road America, WI and Mosport, ON would also be great but I think they might be too close to Milwaukee and Toronto respectively. Road America in Atlanta would be ok too. I personally would get rid of the Indy Grand Prix and add any two of the above road courses. I don't like having two races at Indianapolis as I feel that it takes away from the 500. Watkins Glen is a great track and hosted the US Grand Prix for 20 years as well as Indycar races for years. It needs an open wheel race. Mont-Tremblant is an under used track that has hosted Indycar races before as well as the Canadian Grand Prix in F1. Laguna Seca is another great track that has hosted Indycar. Portland is small and narrow, but had some of the closest Indycar finishes ever in the 80s and 90s. There's also no racing in the Pacific Northwest.

Personally I prefer the street/road courses but I also would like IndyCar to stick to its roots, and that means Ovals. I don't want IndyCar to become just an inferior version of Formula 1 like Champ Car was in the mid-2000s. I like how next year for the first time in a while all of IndyCar's races will be in the US or Canada. IndyCar should be thought of again as the American driving championship like it was back in the USAC and AAA days. I feel like the whole CART/IRL civil war was fought because IRL felt CART had too many road courses and international drivers and yet after years of fighting thats exactly what we have now. I think a few more ovals would help. I would bring back Phoenix International Raceway which hosted Indycar races from the mid-60s all the way up through 2005. Like some of the road courses i mentioned its got a lot of history. For the second Oval I would add either Dover International or New Hampshire MS. Both are one mile ovals. New Hampshire hosted a few Indycar races in the 90's and 2000s. Dover hosted one USAC Champ Car race in 1969. Personally i'm a little biased because I'm from New England and i'd like to see IndyCar there, but honestly Dover might be the better choice because it can cater to the Mid-Atlantic market now that the Grand Prix of Baltimore is gone. Also if they added a race at Watkins Glen or Mont-Tremblant, New Englanders wouldn't have that far to go. I think these oval races (especially since their on smaller tracks) should be around 200-250 miles in length to differentiate them from the longer races at Indy, Pocono, Texas and Fontana and make them easier to watch for people who aren't big fans of ovals.

Anyway, that's my idea of the perfect schedule. 18 races. 8 ovals, 5 street circuits, 5 road courses. All in the US or Canada. Like I said I'd really like to see a return of open wheel racing to Watkins Glen and/or Mont-Tremblant and I'd like to do away with the double headers. What are your thoughts? Are any of these ideas completely unrealistic?

Not at all a fan of this kind of racing, or this series. Kind of blundered into this thread, but since I'm here, I'll make a couple of observations.

1. Road America is not in Georgia, nor for that matter, in Atlanta. Probably just a typo, on your part. Road Atlanta is some 50 or so miles North of Atlanta, in Braselton, GA. This track was purchased, last year, along with Sebring, by International Speedway Corporation.

2. I am a bit surprised that you are so down on double headers, considering that they are part of the history of your series. They were run, for years, by USAC, when they sanctioned the races of your series. I know this, not because of following your series, but because, I am a stock car racing fan and I use to follow the old (sadly, now gone) USAC Stock Car Division. Often times, they were paired with your series, for double headers. Double Headers are as much a tradition of your series as is it's May race and considering that the USAC years were seen, from what I have heard, as the "Golden era" of that form of racing, I fail to see how you would say that they are minor league.

Oh well, sorry to have intruded into you thread -- carry on.

Your right, that was supposed to be Road Atlanta*, not America. Both would be good though.

Your right about the double headers I guess. I know they had double headers back in the day, I guess i'm just overly sensitive to being seen as a lower series when compared to F1 (i'm an F1 fan too and i've heard a lot of other fans say that). I guess Toronto and Houston aren't so bad but I think a more historic race like Detroit should be kept as a stand alone event because thats what it always has been. I wouldn't want the Grand Prix of Long Beach to become a double header for the same reason.

I wish people could separate CART and Champcar. They were not the same and should not be considered the same IMHO. I was a HUGE fan of CART. Champcar was a half assed attempt to save what CART was.

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Originally Posted by nigelred5

I wish people could separate CART and Champcar. They were not the same and should not be considered the same IMHO. I was a HUGE fan of CART. Champcar was a half assed attempt to save what CART was.

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Point well taken.

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I wish people could separate CART and Champcar. They were not the same and should not be considered the same IMHO. I was a HUGE fan of CART. Champcar was a half assed attempt to save what CART was.

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I agree. That's why I want the schedule to go back to more like what it was in the CART days of the 80s and 90s just without as many races outside the US and Canada. I know the schedule alone won't be enough to bring back what CART or the USAC was, but it will help the series separate itself from the IRL/Champ Car dark ages.

I miss tracks like Road America, Cleveland Burke lake front Airport track, The Canadian track that Champcar used????Can't remember what it was called. Would love to see Michigan back on the schedule. Brazil I would like to see back as well, Mexico not Fundudro park(excuse spelling), more than anything I want Surfers Paradise back as well. Ok I am making this sound like CART of the 90's and early 2000's, for me they were the best years. As for ovals bring back Las Vegas oval as well. I think that is about 30 races now, I don't want much do I?? Never mind the series is growing and getting better each year I hope.

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Originally Posted by pcal226

Your right, that was supposed to be Road Atlanta*, not America. Both would be good though.

Your right about the double headers I guess. I know they had double headers back in the day, I guess i'm just overly sensitive to being seen as a lower series when compared to F1 (i'm an F1 fan too and i've heard a lot of other fans say that). I guess Toronto and Houston aren't so bad but I think a more historic race like Detroit should be kept as a stand alone event because thats what it always has been. I wouldn't want the Grand Prix of Long Beach to become a double header for the same reason.

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I don't think you need to worry about Indy being seen as inferior to F1, as the powers that be in F1 (mainly the midget from Suffolk) work hard enough on making F1 a laughing stock with their double points gimmicks and whatnot.

As for Indy. I think the sure way for it to die is returning to an all-American affair. The best days for American openwheel racing were the early and mid nineties. In 1993 the Champcar series had more F1 champions on the grid than F1 itself (3 vs 2). The best American drivers (Mike and Mario Andretti, Little Al, Robby Gordon, Danny Sullivan, Bobby Rahal, Jimmy Vasser etc) duked it out with the best talent from other countries. Champcar was the vastly superior product in comparison with F1, until Tony George and his henchmen did the 'Divide' part for NASCRAP to 'Concquer'.
If Indy wants to regain any sort of recognition again, it'll have to come from the dang foreigners as in Americaland itself it doesn't stand a chance against that Redneck pandemic called NASCRAP. Tony George made sure of that in 1996.

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I think the problem is that Americans just don't care about motorsports. I lived from 20 to 35 in America and some people are obsessed about sports, but never about motorsports, not even NASCAR. And well, America is a big country and if I lived in the deep south, perhaps at least I'd find some NASCAR fans. But west of Indianapolis or the deep south almost no one cares. People treat cars as a form of transportation from place to A place B or a fashion accessory. The combined light truck, SUV, and CUV sales have been beating car sales for years. America is leading the research in driverless cars. It's pretty depressing.

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Originally Posted by zako85

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I think the problem is that Americans just don't care about motorsports. I lived from 20 to 35 in America and some people are obsessed about sports, but never about motorsports, not even NASCAR. And well, America is a big country and if I lived in the deep south, perhaps at least I'd find some NASCAR fans. But west of Indianapolis or the deep south almost no one cares. People treat cars as a form of transportation from place to A place B or a fashion accessory. The combined light truck, SUV, and CUV sales have been beating car sales for years. America is leading the research in driverless cars. It's pretty depressing.

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That's a good observation and fairly accurate. Cars were a big deal here in the 60's and 70's, (and as a result, there was some interest in racing) especially among younger people but that faded out. Open wheel racing shot itself in the foot with the split and stock car racing is a victim of over saturation. Drag racing, in terms of spectators, was always a bastion (mostly) of teens and early twenty somethings - the change of cars from being something to covet into just a tool to get somewhere ended that.

It's pretty much a niche sport now for most people though there is very strong under the radar participation factor. Amateur motorsport here is still doing pretty well. SCCA, NASA and marque clubs for cars, the various motorcycle and kart groups are all doing fine. And with over 300 million people here, even a niche sport still can muster good numbers.

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Originally Posted by zako85

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I think the problem is that Americans just don't care about motorsports. I lived from 20 to 35 in America and some people are obsessed about sports, but never about motorsports, not even NASCAR. And well, America is a big country and if I lived in the deep south, perhaps at least I'd find some NASCAR fans. But west of Indianapolis or the deep south almost no one cares. People treat cars as a form of transportation from place to A place B or a fashion accessory. The combined light truck, SUV, and CUV sales have been beating car sales for years. America is leading the research in driverless cars. It's pretty depressing.

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I don't think Americans care about open wheel motorsports, Indy Car or F1. But even there, F1 ratings aren't much different today than they were 10-15 years ago in the U.S.. Indy Car, on the other hand, has continued its spiral down since the split. NASCAR ratings seem to have peaked and did slip between 2005 and 2010. But they're back to ratings stability now, with Daytona 500 ratings up 30% last year. And with an average of 5.8 million viewers per race, NASCAR ranks only behind NFL football in terms of viewership in the U.S. Last year NASCAR signed a record $8.2 billion deal with NBC and Fox.

As you say, NASCAR is, and has always been, most popular in the south. But other than certain high profile athletes in other sports (Tiger Woods, Eli Manning, Venus/Serena Williams, et al), NASCAR drivers have some of the highest Q ratings in the sports world.

As for the popularity of cars, in general, and the popularity of high performance cars, specifically, I'm not aware of any data which shows that the mix of performance cars to grocery-getters (wagons, trucks, mini-vans, SUVs) is any lower now than it was before. With all due respect, I think this has more to do with personal perception. In fact, I would say that the OEMs are pushing performance again, now that the Great Recession is pretty well behind us. The offerings at the Detroit Auto Show seem to back this up. It's very possible that younger people are not as car crazy as they have been in the past. But let's not forget that in the mid 1970's through the mid 80's, we were in car hell. With growing emissions regulations and rising gas prices, we got a new Corvette in 1983 that had roughly 210 horsepower... from a 5.7 V8! That was the era of the 4 cylinder Mustang and the plastic Fiero. I came of age back then. It was not a fun time to be a gearhead - luckily we had the muscle cars of the previous decade to pull from. And kids were not THAT car crazy back then either, the way they were in the late 90's/early 2000's, when the import tuner scene came of age. But the late 70's is exactly when CART came to life! In the middle of a deep recession. In the middle of a time when the auto offerings truly sucked. CART and Indy sold an exciting narrative that turned fans on. And the people came. The people watched. That stopped (in the middle of an economic boom, when there were all sorts of hot cars on the road) and the fans went away. I love cars. I love racing. But I don't watch racing just to see certain types of cars. I watch because I feel tied to certain drivers or certain teams. That's where the bond is established - it's emotional. And for whatever reason, the IRL, LLC. Indy Car Series has lost (or never had) the ability to deliver on that front. It's more like GP2 (IMO), but the same drivers keep coming back year after year. Apart from nostalgia or sentimental reasons gained over the past 40+ years, why would I watch what they present now? I neither know, care nor like most of the people in the ICS these days. I think one of the major reasons why Indy Car's ratings continue to go down is because us "old heads" are either dying out or even we are giving up on the hope that what we have now will ever get back to something close to what used to make our hearts beat faster - and they've failed miserably in attracting new, younger fans. But hot cars? I just put my name on the list for a 2015 STI. From muscle cars to sport sedans to full out sports cars, there was shortage of offerings in my price range. And I have a line of people who want to buy my modified 2004 WRX - and not a one of them is over 30. Offer something interesting, sexy, crazy and fast... and they will come. You don't need a consultant from Boston to tell you that.

Last point: F1 is hugely popular in places where people cannot even afford to own a car of any type, much less a high performance car. NFL football's fastest growing fan demographic is female - and despite the fantasies of many feminists, women do not and probably will never play NFL football (NBA basketball, MLB baseball or NHL hockey). But they still love it. So to me, this is further proof that people do not have to be participants (or have actual links) in order to enjoy and/or follow a sport.

Kind of like when a girl breaks up with you and she tries to be nice by saying, "it's not you... it's me." In Indy Car's case, let's just be honest: "it's you."

4 words... Bring Back Surfers Paradise.

Bigger crowd than any other race that isn't the Indy 500. Provided awesome racing.

Oh, and it was only 45mins from my house. I'm not biased at all