....at the end of the year.....possibly
Australian Mark Webber signs five-year deal to drive for Porsche | Perth Now
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....at the end of the year.....possibly
Australian Mark Webber signs five-year deal to drive for Porsche | Perth Now
Can't expect someone stay to after what happened this weekend.
This much bad luck just isn't be possible.
Im really looking forward to watching the team battle for the rest of the year.
FINALLY! I thought I wouldn't live long enough to see that dinosaur quit the sport that doesn't suit him.
Hmm, Webber saying after the Malaysian fiasco that he has things to think about, and that he's unclear about 2014.
Mateschitz then saying Kimi is an option for 2014.
Kimi says his options are open for 2014.
Now the Porsche rumor.
Judging by how many rumors have come true in the last 3 years, Kimi in a Red Bull and Webber in Le Mans is a safe bet for now. :D
kimi is going to be put into retirement for a second time. we'll see just how good vettel is now. of course, when vettel blows kimi away people will of course start saying that kimi lost motivation :rolleyes:
I'll bite.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
How can a 36 year old, who is one of the very few people alive today entitled to hold a super licence, be considered a dinosaur?
As far as F1 not suiting him, F1 IS the drivers because they are F1. Mark and Fernando and Sebastian and Lewis and Jenson and Nico and Kimi and all of the other grid holders are F1 and it suits them all.
Ye doth protest too much, too loudly and, it would appear, too bloody soon.
Have a nice day. :)
A multiple race winning dinosaur eh? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
If it doesn't suit him, he's doing a very good impression of it suiting him!
I don't know, to me he's been a pretty successful number 2 driver and still has a lot of speed. One of the best drivers on the grid if you discount the guys with WDC. I actually think Webber will continue next year, remember guys that he could have taken Massa's seat he'd wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
He has become "pretty successfull" when he joined RB - with by far the best car on the grid. And still has been much weaker than his young teammate. Barichelo also seem'd successfull and quick when driving the dominating Ferrari, Kovalainen in McLaren too.
Why are people talking about this?Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
Do you have anything to back this up?
Was there an offer for Webber and Massa to swap seats? Link please?
Why would anyone want to take a seat next to Alonso, the number #1 driver. The guy who [unsuccessfully] blackmailed a team to make him #1? This Mark Webber, who refuses team orders.
Would Webber have taken the gear box penalties? Moved over every time?
Why the hell would RBR want to hire Massa after the 3 disastrous seasons he has had since 2010? Before last season's late resurgence, he would have been lucky to have even a pay drive.
Lazy Australian sports journalism strikes again!Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
Rubens was no slouch in that BAR either. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
If Webber doesn't hit a painted line on a wet track in Korea he wins a world championship. Woulda, coulda, shoulda but it really is that simple.
Webber owns his mistakes but we could do well to remember how close he came to winning a WDC and simply respect that. I rate 2010 as probably the best season for the drivers championship of the past 20 years. I think any of four drivers could've claimed the title in the last race. Webber was one.
He has broken his leg at one point with RBR, effectively lost the first half of the 2009 season as he recovered, went on to be oh so close in the 2010 WDC as mentioned. He doesn't seem to be successful - he is successful.
Replacing Felipe Massa at Ferrari - F1 Opinion, Newsletter - Motor Sport MagazineQuote:
Originally Posted by Koz
Quote:
Ferrari’s option on Massa, to continue with the team for an eighth season, expired on July 31, and the team declined to take it up. Of late Felipe has shown better form, and it had been thought that maybe – maybe – he might be kept on board, after all. Ferrari’s decision not promptly to take up the option on his services does not definitively mean that he is out for 2013, but his retention seems, at best, extremely unlikely.
Upon the announcement of his re-signing with Red Bull, after all, Mark Webber admitted that he had seriously considered an offer from Ferrari before deciding to stay put. And in recent weeks several other names have been put forward as potential team-mate to Alonso next year.
Webber probably peaked somewhere in 2010, so it won't be a big loss for F1 IMHO. We need to get the younger drivers moving into the top drives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyzars
Drives for the BEST TEAM in the BEST CAR for the last 3 years and has only managed to finish 3rd twice and 6th in the Championship. Is the worst blocker on the grid, makes terrible judgements(Just ask JV) and has disobeyed Team orders......
Time for him to go.
If only the points in favour for him going were as well written as the ones against lol.
Not so close when you take Vettel's engine into account. But Mark missed his shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyzars
I agree that Mark Webber is rubbish.
I mean only starting in 199 Grand Prix - Ordinary
11 Pole Positions - Anyone could do that.
35 Podiums - Badoer could do better
9 GP wins. Anyone with less must be a useless driver.
Stats dont lie do they.
OMG! Rubens Barrichello beats all of those statistics!Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
How many podiums and wins did he have before he was in the fastest car on the grid? Can you count them on one hand?
In their time together, in the same car. Vettel has notched up as many wins as WINS as Webber has podiums. So what does that say?
How many pole positions has Vettel had in that time? 3-4 times more?
Yeah, I agree. He is rubbish.
Then so was Villeneuve, Barrichello and Button all of who only achieved wins and podiums in really fast cars. In fact most drivers in F1 only win in fastest cars.
Any driver that makes it to F1 is a good driver and any who does as well as Webber is a brilliant one, regardless of the car.
I think people need to remember how good all these drivers are and just how good the likes of Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso are.
There is no doubting how much skill these guys have, even the guys in GP2 and other feeder series. But we are not comparing drivers with ourselves, we are comparing them with their peers.Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
And I do not for a second believe that Webber is in any way "brilliant" compared to anyone currently on the grid, with few exceptions.
He is a driver who showed much promise when he came into F1 and then showed nothing special since. He has been very luck to be in the position in which he is, but he is a number #2 driver and can't admit it to himself.
He has had the fastest car since 2009. 4 years. And what does he have to show for it? While his team mate has dominated, he hasn't made an impact. In 2009 or 2010, yes he was a good drivers. He was very lucky that Vettel had two technical failures while leading, (and went kamakazee on him) that gave him a chance - and Webber blew it.
In 2011, WTF. Vettel won 11 races. Webber won 1. And even that was an act of charity from RedBull in hope of getting him #2 in the c'ship. Now #3 doesn't sound bad, but that's 134 point difference.
Where was he last year? 6th.
This isn't a brilliant driver in my book, average, on the level DC, Rubens, even Button.
Webber was really impressive at Jaguar, so it's not just Red Bull.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
He was only impressive in the Jaguar, nowhere else.Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
I can't spend too much time defending Webber against outlandish statements but if folks keep making them then I feel I sorta gotta. :) I do hope that my buttons aren't being pushed. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
By you calling Red Bull the BEST TEAM I can only assume that you are saying Webber has been doing the business. He would thank you for the recognition I'm sure.
His performance in the BEST CAR has been exemplary. He has only been headed in the championship by a couple of world champions in the last 3 years. How's this, of drivers who have never won a world championship, Webber has led his category in all of the last 3 years.
In 2009 he was beaten by 2 non-world champions. Vettel and Barrichiello in the BAR with which Button won the championship.
When did JV retire again? 2006, 2007? I seem to have lost his number but if I did ask him I'm sure he is not curled up in a ball over anything Mark Webber might have done all those years ago.
Blocking is defending and if Webber is the worst blocker on the grid then he needs to work on it - even in these long dark DRS days. I would love to see a grid full of blockers but alas that pleasure is denied us by the "push to pass" and DRS fanboys who rule F1 today.
There should be only one team order and that is "you scratch it, you pay for it".
It is not time for Webber to go in my opinion but it is time for him to go for it...
A very simplistic and dismissive way of weighing things up IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Considering that he has had the best and fastest car for almost 4 years now, in addition to that he has not had to deal with a top 3 driver as his teammate, he should have won far more. At least Barrichello had the excuse of having the best driver in the world as his teammate, webber doesn't even have that.Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
To that I say:Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Unless you guys mean DC and Rubens are great drives?Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
All three have impressive statistics while out of context, but when you compare them to their teammates, it is a different story entirely.
The credit of that lies soley in the hands of one Adrian Newey. And honorary mention goes to Vettel, for doing what the car was capable of doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyzars
Yet, it is his team mate, who has always prevailed by quite a margin (lets take Vettel's engine failures into consideration).Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyzars
Where was he last year?
Where was in in 2011 when his team mate won half the races and Webber had one out of RBR's charity?
Yes, where his younger team mate, only in his second season in F1 beat him. Hum, yes that is impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyzars
Didn't really impress in the second half of that season either.
Nice of you to finally acknowledge how much you really rate Jenson Button - Best Driver in the World, you read it here first!! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
No. Much like Webber now, DC and Ruben's were racing against team mates who were much more consistent and dare I say better. I don't see the point in declaring a driver is rubbish simply because he can't consistently beat a World Champion team mate. That doesn't mean they are not very good drivers who deserve credit for their success. After all this is Formula One not football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
It is dismaying to read so many smug and oh so knowledgeable armchair hard men layin' down the authoritah and sinking the boot in. I can think of a few very good racers that didn't win a WDC whilst occupying a prime seat, and/or having the misfortune to come up against a prodigy in their time - go and do some research. But for some I should imagine that is a step too far, and in which case maybe a Mod should school these deluded souls from time to time... But then again, I am Australian so my opinion of a driver from my own country doesn't count it seems.
This forum's standards of discourse has declined rapidly over the past 6mths, which is a mystery as there are some knowledgeable people posting here.
I agree. Such people have no historical perspective, nor an appreciation of the fact that ability cannot only be measured through statistics. It saddens me that, today, a driver as outstanding as Chris Amon would be described as a 'loser' or similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles
I don't think anyone is saying he is a great driver, just a good one. It's just that he has probably the fastest driver in F1 as a teammate. Without Vettel's presense, Webber could well be a WDC right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
Indeed. I don't think there is any doubt that Vettel is the primary focus of Red Bull and has been since 2009. Webber is a multople race winner and even the best car does not always guarantee an easy victory. Many would say Ferrari had the best car in 2008 but would we hear claims Kimi is rubbish because he often couldn't match Felipe that year? Definitely not. The bigger picture needs to be analysed in every scenario, especially at this level.Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
if i was kimmi Better stay with Lotus. and become number one driver. rather than going to join. vettel. hmm they will somehow make hime number two driver. lotus is a very strong team even though no one seems to notice that. they are one of the fastes at the moment.. redbull need another loser to help Vettel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
You say "solely" but what about Horner, the engineers, Renault, the owner, the pit crews. All go towards the BEST TEAM mantel. Vettel and Webber have to do the business end and they do.
You give only an honorary mention to a phenomenon (Vettel) and no credit to the other, more senior, driver in the team.
Webber has been at Red Bull a lot of years and, I presume, with Newey's blessing.
Why do you say "yet"? I don't recall ever saying that Webber is better than Vettel.Quote:
Yet, it is his team mate, who has always prevailed by quite a margin (lets take Vettel's engine failures into consideration).
The way Webber is being attacked it sounds like he is being lowered into the car in an old peoples sling and only finds his way around a track with the assistance of a GPS and bump stops.
Such a terrible thing to say about RBR and the question must be asked - why do you think their charity wasn't extended to the other races in the season?Quote:
Where was he last year?
Where was in in 2011 when his team mate won half the races and Webber had one out of RBR's charity?
As I noted earlier, Vettel is a phenomenon. Vettel is earning his achievements without a dominant car and against a rule book that is designed to combat greatness. Phenomenal.
Just maybe Webber's many years of experience have contributed to Red Bull success but you haven't acknowledged that possibility. Red Bull sign him for some reason or other. What reason could they possibly have?
In 2010 Mark made his stupid crack to the world about being the #2 driver when winning the British GP. He won the GP of Hungary a few weeks later and then won nothing until Brazil in 2011. Webber's performances have changed markedly since 2010. Someone said in another thread that Webber drives well when he's p*ssed, I would hazard a guess that the opposite might be true.
He has been bested but its nothing that a couple of race wins won't fix. We're only talking tenths of a second after all.
I have enjoyed immensely watching my countryman driving in a top tier team.Quote:
Yes, where his younger team mate, only in his second season in F1 beat him. Hum, yes that is impressive.
Didn't really impress in the second half of that season either.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
Gutierrez would look like the fastest driver in F1 in the kind of car RB has had since 2009.
the red bull was only superior car in 2011. mclaren had better race pace but poorer reliability than the red bull. the red bull had better pace than the ferrari in the second half of the season, but the ferrari had great reliability all year and decent race pace which is what kept alonso in the championship. nothing between red bull, ferrari and mclaren in 2010.