Why are BTCC fans so dumb?

Now, before I start, this isn't aimed at many people on here, mostly the morons who seem to reside at the official forums or on the series facebook page.

I might be wrong here, but the BTCC seems to have the dumbest general fans of any of the major series that I follow.

I don't know why? Is it the way its portrayed in the media and press? Is the BTCC perhaps now attracting the wrong crowd?

I have noted a rise in the cheering and celebrating of on track crashes in the last couple of years, particularly when they involve certain drivers.

I strongly disagree with you in most points. For starters, if a series is to have a very large following, you're bound to get a lot of people who you may consider to be 'Dumb'
I've been going to BTCC events for ten years now, and cheering at certain drivers' incidents has never been a rare occurance. It happens in any sport with strong personalities and adoring fans. There is literally nothing new about this.
You want to see dumb? Go look at any topic on twitter, be it #btcc, #bbcf1 or any other sport. You get all sorts on there, welcome to the internet: everyone's welcome.
Apologies for grammar and spelling I'm writing this on my phone because I couldn't not reply to this.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen in other sports, or for that matter in the BTCC in the past. Just I have noticed what seems to be an increase in this in recent years, and in particular it more frequently on BTCC related things than elsewhere. I certainly don't remember so much of the cheering of (potentially) serious accidents 10 years ago.

I'm not talking about the ironic cheering you get when John George or Chris James have harmless spins into the gravel or whatever, it tends to be for the more serious accidents,

Could be something to do with the fact that the BTCC has been sold for many years on the crashes and questionable overtakes (i.e nudges), so that's what many fans come to see?

if im honest ill agree. more so for this year and its all triggered to one person in particular.

To me a fan cheers when a big crash happens is a sign of them not going to watch the races for the entertainment but for the hope for a massive crash. that to me isn't a real fan.

I was at Donny across from were Plato had his big roll and the amount of people that cheered really made me angry to the point were i yelled out "well we know who are not true fans of the BTCC" i just sickened me to think they were enjoying seeing such a crash and after the crash there was a single "o my god i hope hes ok" it was more like "hahahahaha what a loooser"

I've just seen the ad for the silverstone round and it's full of crashes. No wonder the spectators expect that

yeah same here, so we can blame the BTCC promoters for the unfan like behavior then

Last time I went to Rockingham (and I'll never go back there), it felt like a cross between NASCAR and a football match in that main stand. Not quite on the same par as the York City fans at Silverstone in 2002 though, all pissed up on John B&Q's free lager, shouting obscenities at their rivals..........

Don't agree with cheering when a bad crash happens, but an ironic cheer when John George or Chris James finds the gravel is ok. It's also fun to heckle things you don't think are right, like team orders.

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Originally Posted by Iain

Last time I went to Rockingham (and I'll never go back there), it felt like a cross between NASCAR and a football match in that main stand.

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I can understand why some think the general parallels with NASCAR are there now in the BTCC, in that it could be seen as a championship that puts entertainment first and purity second, but I must confess to not knowing quite what to make of it all. Jonathan Palmer obviously has a vested interest given his circuit ownerships, but nonetheless I think his opinions are worth listening to, and in an interview a few years ago he said he wanted there to be more personalities built up amongst the BTCC drivers, just as he said there used to be in the old days. Well, something like that has clearly happened, yet it (perhaps rightly) attracts criticism for somehow seeming false and all too predictable. My view has always been that I watch F1 to see pure racing and touring cars as light relief. The turbo/non-turbo arguments this year, all caused in the first instance by TOCA, have tried my patience but not exhausted it, on the grounds that I have never viewed the BTCC as offering anything other than entertainment, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

(Incidentally, I was intrigued to hear Motor Sport's Nigel Roebuck, a purist enthusiast if ever I could name one, praising NASCAR recently on the grounds that the arguments between drivers were 'tremendously entertaining' and to be welcomed as an antidote to the boringly corporate culture that pervades much motorsport these days. No doubt he — no touring car enthusiast, it must be said — would be horrified at the same happening in a British racing series, on the grounds that it may be acceptable amongst Americans, but not us...)

And what do we put this year's increased crowd figures at BTCC meetings down to? It can't all be people wanting to see accidents, something I deplore. As for the use of crash footage in the championship's advertising, I too am uncomfortable with it, but even in the early 1980s the BBC used a BTCC shunt in the opening montage on Grandstand! For what it's worth, since Donington earlier this year I think the driving standards have improved markedly. At recent rounds the racing has been much cleaner, with the odd unnecessary incident but no more than was ever the case during the Super Touring heyday.

I just had a look at the official forum and see what you mean although there are some people on there talking sense.

On the point of Rockingham I like the main grandstand there but then I'm a footie fan so it reminds me of that. I loved the Owy fan club flag up there the other week. I have to say at Rockingham if somebody got hit people just made a sort of gasping noise I was on top of the garages so that's when we knew something had happened when you could hear this noise from the grandstand but there was only really racing incidents.

Even my Dad who's in his early 80's said after the 2nd race today there's not so much hitting one another as there used to be...

TOCA is run as a business and the more bums they get to the circuits, the more money that they get. I think the way in which the BTCC has been marketed in recent years plays a significant role in the calibre of the trackside fans.

I am a staunch supporter of the BTCC and would like to call myself a purist. But even from my point of view the series has admittedly lost this edge, no matter what any media officer or team boss will tel lyou about it being the top series in the land.

Since the loss of manufacturer interest in the series, and the reducing costs and technical freedom, the championship seems to have had to search for a different market. I believe that the type of fan you see more often now is there for a reason - because they've been targeted and attracted to this close, short-attention span, bumper-to-bumper action.

A day at the races now is about 25 minute bursts of entertainment.

It has led me to have an increased interest in the World Championship in recent years - which for obvious reasons has no intention of collecting this loyal, dumb following that the BTCC seems to have.

I feel your frustrations, AF.

TOCA know what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

(Incidentally, I was intrigued to hear Motor Sport's Nigel Roebuck, a purist enthusiast if ever I could name one, praising NASCAR recently on the grounds that the arguments between drivers were 'tremendously entertaining' and to be welcomed as an antidote to the boringly corporate culture that pervades much motorsport these days. No doubt he — no touring car enthusiast, it must be said — would be horrified at the same happening in a British racing series, on the grounds that it may be acceptable amongst Americans, but not us...)

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NASCAR is extremely competitive these days, the media attention is so much greater, the pressure gets cranked higher and yet even when personalities come to the fore NASCAR is still regarded was very corporate these days.

Unfortunately in BTCC the rivalry with Plato & Neal feels at times, how can I put this, manufactured?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

For what it's worth, since Donington earlier this year I think the driving standards have improved markedly. At recent rounds the racing has been much cleaner, with the odd unnecessary incident but no more than was ever the case during the Super Touring heyday.

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Donnington meeting was blown out of proportion due to Plato's shunt and Saint Plato's sermon.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Unfortunately in BTCC the rivalry with Plato & Neal feels at times, how can I put this, manufactured?

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I agree with this...

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Originally Posted by wedge

Donnington meeting was blown out of proportion due to Plato's shunt and Saint Plato's sermon.

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...but not with this. There was the incident between Smith and Foster that saw Foster skating across the Old Hairpin gravel at high speed, the repeated first lap shunts, and then the coming-together between Neate and Gilham at the end of race three, to name but a few. I certainly found the whole thing rather concerning, even leaving Plato's roll aside.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

...but not with this. There was the incident between Smith and Foster that saw Foster skating across the Old Hairpin gravel at high speed, the repeated first lap shunts, and then the coming-together between Neate and Gilham at the end of race three, to name but a few. I certainly found the whole thing rather concerning, even leaving Plato's roll aside.

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Had to watch it again to remind myself.

2011 BTCC at Donington, Nick Foster's big off. - YouTube

Nothing wrong IMHO. From spectating you can make out the camber changes of Craner Curves. From doing a track day its much, much harder than it looks - easy to go off if you get it wrong.

Just before the contact, Foster was on the absolute limit on the outside of the Craners Curves and there's slight wriggle. All it takes is a slight nudge and it looks worse than it looks.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Had to watch it again to remind myself.

2011 BTCC at Donington, Nick Foster's big off. - YouTube

Nothing wrong IMHO. From spectating you can make out the camber changes of Craner Curves. From doing a track day its much, much harder than it looks - easy to go off if you get it wrong.

Just before the contact, Foster was on the absolute limit on the outside of the Craners Curves and there's slight wriggle. All it takes is a slight nudge and it looks worse than it looks.

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Of course. But the cumulative effect in my mind was of an awful lot of incidents — far too many. The same went for one of the Mondello races in 2005, when, likewise, I just thought that it had all got a bit out of hand.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Unfortunately in BTCC the rivalry with Plato & Neal feels at times, how can I put this, manufactured?

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Just like the Plato - Muller rivalry. The motorsport press were forever hyping it up, when really the two guys had a healthy respect for eachother deep down and both admitted as such. But then those sort of stories don't sell magazines do they.

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Originally Posted by Iain

Just like the Plato - Muller rivalry. The motorsport press were forever hyping it up, when really the two guys had a healthy respect for eachother deep down and both admitted as such. But then those sort of stories don't sell magazines do they.

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I must confess that I don't see how that did anything other than work in everybody's favour. And to blame the press doesn't quite tell the full story, does it? After all, am I not right in thinking that Muller wouldn't help Plato in his 2007 BTCC title bid, hence SEAT's entry of Tom Coronel for the final meeting?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Of course. But the cumulative effect in my mind was of an awful lot of incidents — far too many. The same went for one of the Mondello races in 2005, when, likewise, I just thought that it had all got a bit out of hand.

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Plato's rant certainly had an effect, just like his spamming/trolling on various motorsport forums.

The problem with Plato is that he has a sizeable ego, thinks he's the face and the Alex Ferguson of BTCC.

There's always going to be meetings that will to live up to the Premier League Banger Racing stereotype.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Plato's rant certainly had an effect, just like his spamming/trolling on various motorsport forums.

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Not on me it didn't.