Has BTCC completely lost it?

Whilst picking up our coats, cushions etc at Rockingham yesterday, 18/09/2011, I commented to my wife that I really don't care who wins the championship this year.

BTCC, in my opinion, has degraded into childish bickering amongst drivers, childish and dangerous driving tactics, rule changes here, there and everywhere just to appease whoever is whinging the loudest at the time.

I have followed the sport since the 1980's, I introduced my wife to it in the '90's and we have both been fans since. I'm not speaking for her, she has her own opinions which she is entitled and she's big enough and intelligent enough to form those opinions.

However, I shall have to look long and hard at the series before next season to make an informed opinion as to whether or not I wish to following this kind of behaviour from so called adults. It never used to be like this, only in the last few years when differing teams have pushed boundaries of the rules.

Lets go back to the days of all normally asperated cars, no diesels, no gas powered cars. All conforming to one strict specification, then it comes down to driver/engineer skill regarding set-up and driver skill on the track.

I think, at this moment in time that the best racing has to come from the Historic Sports Car Club meets.

I'd welcome other peoples views on this.

Tixy

I went to the BTCC at the weekend for the first time since 2006. To be honest even half an hour before I was due to leave I was thinking about not going but I'm glad I did. I was worried it might be embarrassing to watch but I didn't find that at all I've posted a comment already about what I thought about that.

I was at quali and I didn't even know there had been a bust up I saw a lot of people waiting outside JP's garage for him but that's not unusual and I didn't hear what happened.

What was obvious for me was the lack of a Vauxhall or a Team RAC there's a big presence from Honda and not much else although I have to say the paddock was looking very professional even from the small teams.

Drivers have been bickering and falling out for years, its nothing new!

Do you not remember Rydell and Reid at Brands and again Reid when he fell out with Thompson at Silverstone? Theres probably plenty more, but people seem very keen to jump on the anti-BTCC band wagon at the moment and its getting so boring to read!

There were indeed plenty of such incidents in the past. They were boring then, and they're boring now.

One of the things missing from the BTCC at the moment is elitist meritocratic racing.

If you don't like the BTCC, don't watch it. If you don't watch it then thats up to you. Don't waste our time with your dull complaints.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the racing. It's the nonsense that surrounds it that I tend to fast forward through or hit the mute button on the TV for. Pantomime season should be restricted to the winter months.

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Originally Posted by inimitablestoo

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the racing. It's the nonsense that surrounds it that I tend to fast forward through or hit the mute button on the TV for. Pantomime season should be restricted to the winter months.

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My view exactly.

For what it's worth, my enthusiasm for the BTCC remains undiminished, and I would generally class myself as a 'purist' sort of enthusiast — F1 satisfies that for me, and I've always seen touring cars as a form of light relief. Since the stupidity at Donington, the racing in 2011 has been no dirtier than it's ever been. We've seen a genuine surprise, in that Nick Foster has proved it perfectly possible for someone easily dismissed as a 'gentleman driver' to progress and run at the front in a car that's far from the best. And we've seen the rise of someone I think will be a genuine touring car star of the (not-too-distant) future in Frank Wrathall. However, all this is tempered by the fact of the technical rules this season being a complete dog's dinner. I think the NGTC rules are terrific, and offer the championship a tremendous springboard into the next few years. But the sooner all the competing teams adopt the same technical formula the better. I have no desire for equalisation arguments to continue into 2012. If they do, then I will start to lose interest.

The constant bickering from all sides about the equalisation rules is very irritating, it hasn't served to dampen my enthusiasm for the BTCC though I have to admit I've begun to simply ignore Jason Plato and Matt Neal interviews now. I think the NGTC rules could be fantastic for the championship, I just hope the top teams next year run NGTC so this equalisation argument can drift into the background.

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Originally Posted by VkmSpouge

The constant bickering from all sides about the equalisation rules is very irritating, it hasn't served to dampen my enthusiasm for the BTCC though I have to admit I've begun to simply ignore Jason Plato and Matt Neal interviews now.

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And now even their arguments pale into insignificance compared with the nonsense in F1 yesterday.

I assume you mean the Massa/Hamilton thing. I don't see what the problem was there: Felipe congratulated Lewis on a good job done. That's nice ;)

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Originally Posted by Tixy54

Whilst picking up our coats, cushions etc at Rockingham yesterday, 18/09/2011, I commented to my wife that I really don't care who wins the championship this year.

BTCC, in my opinion, has degraded into childish bickering amongst drivers, childish and dangerous driving tactics, rule changes here, there and everywhere just to appease whoever is whinging the loudest at the time.

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This:

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Originally Posted by Allyc85

Drivers have been bickering and falling out for years, its nothing new!

Do you not remember Rydell and Reid at Brands and again Reid when he fell out with Thompson at Silverstone? Theres probably plenty more, but people seem very keen to jump on the anti-BTCC band wagon at the moment and its getting so boring to read!

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Neal & Plato are competitive and in it to win it.

Judging by a recent Motorsport Magazine article admitting they're there to put on a show doesn't particularly help matters.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

and I've always seen touring cars as a form of light relief.

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Same here. The technical bickerings haven't helped, with the way things in NASCAR now it is too much of a good thing and with trying to reduce the amount of motorsport I watch I don't follow BTCC as much these days.

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Originally Posted by wedge

The technical bickerings haven't helped, with the way things in NASCAR now it is too much of a good thing and with trying to reduce the amount of motorsport I watch I don't follow BTCC as much these days.

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Well, I sincerely hope an end gets put to the technical bickering next year, by virtue of all the top teams running NGTC equipment. If that's the end result of this year's debacle, it will almost have been worthwhile, because NGTC surely promises to be an excellent formula when everyone's running to it.

BTCC has never been better imo.

Only thing that annoys me is Plato whining all the time. GET A TURBO, FFS!

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Originally Posted by inimitablestoo

I assume you mean the Massa/Hamilton thing. I don't see what the problem was there: Felipe congratulated Lewis on a good job done. That's nice ;)

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To be honest, drivers like Lewis who take big risks make the action much more entertaining

Indeed. He'd be great in a touring car... :)

There is always this periodic state of flux in the BTCC until rules are homogenised and even then, Alan likes to "spice" things up a little.

Matt and Jason are part of the theatre which makes up a colourful and exciting series. Cleaning it up and trying to even out all the regulations would stifle the series rather than enhance it.

Sometimes, you just need to enjoy the drama for the sake of drama.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

There is always this periodic state of flux in the BTCC until rules are homogenised and even then, Alan likes to "spice" things up a little.

Matt and Jason are part of the theatre which makes up a colourful and exciting series. Cleaning it up and trying to even out all the regulations would stifle the series rather than enhance it.

Sometimes, you just need to enjoy the drama for the sake of drama.

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I wouldn't class myself as someone with a short attention span, yet I would have to be paid substantial sums of money to attend a DTM race again. I did so last year and was bored so rigid I left before the end. That has never happened at a BTCC meeting.

As for the rules, they will even themselves out when everybody is running an NGTC car.

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Originally Posted by inimitablestoo

I assume you mean the Massa/Hamilton thing. I don't see what the problem was there: Felipe congratulated Lewis on a good job done. That's nice ;)

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Would you please refrain from 'dirtying' this Touring Car forum with the mention of that other so called 'race series'.

For me the way TOCA damaged the Hondas more than the other turbos, just for Plato's sake, left a sour taste in my mouth. For a long time I didn't watch the races. I am happy that Neal won, but I'm not sure that I will watch more races next year... :(

In the 90's and early 2000's the BTCC was the fun part of motorsport. A serious competition with close action and the odd bit of controversy, as an aside to F1 for us Brits.

F1 is now streets ahead in terms of enjoyment for me.

The BTCC is mildly embarrassing - three short races, pathetic rules, pathetic drivers (bar the odd exception) and dangerous amounts of contact.

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Originally Posted by Bezza

In the 90's and early 2000's the BTCC was the fun part of motorsport. A serious competition with close action and the odd bit of controversy, as an aside to F1 for us Brits.

F1 is now streets ahead in terms of enjoyment for me.

The BTCC is mildly embarrassing - three short races, pathetic rules, pathetic drivers (bar the odd exception) and dangerous amounts of contact.

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By exactly the same token, I find DRS mildly embarrassing.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

By exactly the same token, I find DRS mildly embarrassing.

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DRS has been embarrassing is some races such as Turkey, but I can't help but wonder how exciting last years Abu Dhabi finale would have been with DRS. Alonso and Webber wouldn't have had their races ruined.

The quality of the BTCC field seems to be lower than I can remember for a while. The championship needs the likes of Thompson, Turkington, Giovanardi.etc

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

The quality of the BTCC field seems to be lower than I can remember for a while. The championship needs the likes of Thompson, Turkington, Giovanardi.etc

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Not really. A loss of 2 key drivers but we've gained one, maybe two who have a bright future.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

DRS has been embarrassing is some races such as Turkey, but I can't help but wonder how exciting last years Abu Dhabi finale would have been with DRS. Alonso and Webber wouldn't have had their races ruined.

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To me, that's not the point. Such is racing sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

The quality of the BTCC field seems to be lower than I can remember for a while. The championship needs the likes of Thompson, Turkington, Giovanardi.etc

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Not sure about that. Frank Wrathall in particular is a great up-and-coming prospect. And while many may criticise the 'gentleman drivers', let's not forget that one in particular, Nick Foster, proved to be rather better than that in 2011. The BTCC was only full of international superstars for a fairly short time — it was the exception to its history rather than the rule.

Oh, and watching the supefyingly dull DTM finale yesterday made me again realise why, despite all its faults, I'd take the BTCC any day.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

To me, that's not the point. Such is racing sometimes.



Not sure about that. Frank Wrathall in particular is a great up-and-coming prospect. And while many may criticise the 'gentleman drivers', let's not forget that one in particular, Nick Foster, proved to be rather better than that in 2011. The BTCC was only full of international superstars for a fairly short time — it was the exception to its history rather than the rule.

Oh, and watching the supefyingly dull DTM finale yesterday made me again realise why, despite all its faults, I'd take the BTCC any day.

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While I think Frank has driven well this year I don't think we can really rate him untill he races against some better competition in NGTC cars. I think in parts of this year he has had a car advantage. I remember at Rockingham he was missing apexes but was still setting fastest laps.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

While I think Frank has driven well this year I don't think we can really rate him untill he races against some better competition in NGTC cars. I think in parts of this year he has had a car advantage. I remember at Rockingham he was missing apexes but was still setting fastest laps.

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This is true, but one can only judge on the basis of what one sees, and when the equipment was on a par with the front-runners he was able to race well with them, and cleanly. Whether his car was actually even faster than that, who can say? It's one of the irritations I have with the modern BTCC — we don't truly know the relative performance of each car, because there are so many variables (weight penalties, different technical regs for NGTC as opposed to S2000-spec cars, boost pressure changes, etc) that come into play.